Halon
01-27-2011, 09:19 AM
I know you are not the first to do this. The 2jz and the 7m have both been MS by version 1 2 and MS3 (the MS3 is the most interesting to me though. Lots of options and thought put into that standalone) Myself, I am not familiar with MS ing a 2jz but after building a couple for a couple of different cars, it is really easy to understand how any ECU works on any car. My best description is "It is like hooking up a stereo to your tv, dvd, ps3.... There are inputs and outputs plus you must make sure it is plugged in. " Hopefully I am not sounding rude at all when I make comments. Just trying to help a fellow MSer
Don't worry about sounding rude. I'm a newb to MS, so I have lots of learning to do as the most complicated system I've ever used before this was DSMLink :)
After I asked the question I googled it and found out it does use two vr sensors, one is a 12 tooth wheel and the other is a Top Dead Center trigger so ms knows which one to fire on for sequential injecton. You should be able to tap into it with the MS and stock ECU both in place if the stock wire wasn't shielded, it really doesn't matter if the MS is shielded. Rarely is there noise by the stock ECU. it is usually in the engine bay by the coils.
The way I understood it, the 2jz-ge (non-turbo) uses a 24 tooth nippon style wheel (no missing tooth) with one sensor (NE) for crank position, and a 2nd wheel that has one tooth and two sensors (g1 and g2) for cam position. All within the dizzy. I have the NE signal coming into the tach input on the MS3 card, and the G2 signal coming into the crank input on the MS3x card. Both signals are simply tapped, so both the ECU and the MS are seeing them.
TS is just reporting what MS actually sees and yes the MS is loosing sync, I can even hear it in the video when it misfires.
You don't have the wires for the 12 tooth and TDC switch because if you did, it wouldn't run at all
I don't think I ever questioned if I had them backwards. I'm certain they are hooked up correctly.
My comment is that it has to be down stream somewhere because your stock ECU is also loosing sync. Most often for me when it is loosing sync like that, it is because the builder of the MS soldered something inside the case wrong and so MS looses sync. Tach usually reads just fine besides the dip when it misses.
Your case is different. My guess is that your tach on your dash gets a signal from your stock ECU. So both the stock ECU and MS are receiving a bad signal somewhere down stream from the ECUs. It could be that you have to recheck the solder that you made when you tapped in to the signal cable.
It could be that your VR sensor in the distributor is going out when it idles and can't pick the signal up.
My understanding is that the 2JZ-GE tach signal does not come from the ECU. It's a distributor setup and that I believe somehow provides the tach signal, not the ECU. And after talking with Jordan, he agrees with my thinking. MS is losing sync. When that happens, my ignition output shuts off. That is why you hear the car miss in the video when it loses sync, and that's why the RPM's drop on both the laptop and on the actual car tach. Because it is actually missing, and the rpm's are actually dropping. The sync loss is what is causing all this, so I need to just get that sync issue fixed and that should take care of most of this.
Bah it is easier to hook them up at the same time so shane can give you an optimum tune on the car:wink:
Yes when I bring it to shane it will have injectors and timing both hooked up. I was saying I may hook the stock ignition back up as part of my sync issue troubleshooting process.
It is the spark map that usually needs to get tuned on the dyno. if that is dialed in correctly tuning the VE table is something that can be done on the fly most of the times. I ran someone elses tune on my eclipse for sometime
I'm going to have shane do whatever it is he has to, to make the car run as good as new as he can.
I use MS2 as that fits my needs for most 4 cylinders (and works pretty well for V8 also). I modified the MS chip so that it would do 4 cylinder sequential injection with the help of an "adder board"
TS is pretty universal with both. I don't have any need dashboard sorry to say. I usually stick with the standard gauges and fit which ones I need to see on the dash. Looking at the green one with bars gives me a headache but Ricers LOVE it. "hey you have a standalone on your car!" now I need to find a warning flasher or something that says my manifold pressure is too great....
GET THE FULL VERSION OF TUNERS STUDIO, there is a tune as you go option that is not on the free ware. Pay the money it isn't that much and that will help you tune as you drive. It helped me dial in my VE table. (it is really hard to tune with only myself in the car...
Yes I have the full version. I started with the free version, but since I have these sync issues, I decided to get the full version so I can use the trigger/tooth logger function.
Don't worry about sounding rude. I'm a newb to MS, so I have lots of learning to do as the most complicated system I've ever used before this was DSMLink :)
After I asked the question I googled it and found out it does use two vr sensors, one is a 12 tooth wheel and the other is a Top Dead Center trigger so ms knows which one to fire on for sequential injecton. You should be able to tap into it with the MS and stock ECU both in place if the stock wire wasn't shielded, it really doesn't matter if the MS is shielded. Rarely is there noise by the stock ECU. it is usually in the engine bay by the coils.
The way I understood it, the 2jz-ge (non-turbo) uses a 24 tooth nippon style wheel (no missing tooth) with one sensor (NE) for crank position, and a 2nd wheel that has one tooth and two sensors (g1 and g2) for cam position. All within the dizzy. I have the NE signal coming into the tach input on the MS3 card, and the G2 signal coming into the crank input on the MS3x card. Both signals are simply tapped, so both the ECU and the MS are seeing them.
TS is just reporting what MS actually sees and yes the MS is loosing sync, I can even hear it in the video when it misfires.
You don't have the wires for the 12 tooth and TDC switch because if you did, it wouldn't run at all
I don't think I ever questioned if I had them backwards. I'm certain they are hooked up correctly.
My comment is that it has to be down stream somewhere because your stock ECU is also loosing sync. Most often for me when it is loosing sync like that, it is because the builder of the MS soldered something inside the case wrong and so MS looses sync. Tach usually reads just fine besides the dip when it misses.
Your case is different. My guess is that your tach on your dash gets a signal from your stock ECU. So both the stock ECU and MS are receiving a bad signal somewhere down stream from the ECUs. It could be that you have to recheck the solder that you made when you tapped in to the signal cable.
It could be that your VR sensor in the distributor is going out when it idles and can't pick the signal up.
My understanding is that the 2JZ-GE tach signal does not come from the ECU. It's a distributor setup and that I believe somehow provides the tach signal, not the ECU. And after talking with Jordan, he agrees with my thinking. MS is losing sync. When that happens, my ignition output shuts off. That is why you hear the car miss in the video when it loses sync, and that's why the RPM's drop on both the laptop and on the actual car tach. Because it is actually missing, and the rpm's are actually dropping. The sync loss is what is causing all this, so I need to just get that sync issue fixed and that should take care of most of this.
Bah it is easier to hook them up at the same time so shane can give you an optimum tune on the car:wink:
Yes when I bring it to shane it will have injectors and timing both hooked up. I was saying I may hook the stock ignition back up as part of my sync issue troubleshooting process.
It is the spark map that usually needs to get tuned on the dyno. if that is dialed in correctly tuning the VE table is something that can be done on the fly most of the times. I ran someone elses tune on my eclipse for sometime
I'm going to have shane do whatever it is he has to, to make the car run as good as new as he can.
I use MS2 as that fits my needs for most 4 cylinders (and works pretty well for V8 also). I modified the MS chip so that it would do 4 cylinder sequential injection with the help of an "adder board"
TS is pretty universal with both. I don't have any need dashboard sorry to say. I usually stick with the standard gauges and fit which ones I need to see on the dash. Looking at the green one with bars gives me a headache but Ricers LOVE it. "hey you have a standalone on your car!" now I need to find a warning flasher or something that says my manifold pressure is too great....
GET THE FULL VERSION OF TUNERS STUDIO, there is a tune as you go option that is not on the free ware. Pay the money it isn't that much and that will help you tune as you drive. It helped me dial in my VE table. (it is really hard to tune with only myself in the car...
Yes I have the full version. I started with the free version, but since I have these sync issues, I decided to get the full version so I can use the trigger/tooth logger function.