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scheides
10-30-2010, 11:44 PM
Super hung over from Mark's party last night but Kody came over for an afternoon/evening of 'do work son.' Had the head off after about two hours and the motor on the floor a few hours after that. On to the carnage pics.

Head off, piston#1 at TDC. Problem?
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3492.sized.jpg

Head looks like it ate some shit. Just run it or should I get this cleaned up?
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3501.sized.jpg


Good productive use of a saturday evening:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3509.sized.jpg


Piston out of cyl1, top ring missing about 1/3 and lower ring siezed in place:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3503.sized.jpg

Ouchie. Close-up of sides of piston:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3507.sized.jpg

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3508.sized.jpg


Now close-ups of the cylinder walls. Just damage everywhere. Not sure what causes this but yea, not super pumped.

Cyl1(rear then front):
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3511.sized.jpg
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3512.sized.jpg

Cyl2(rear then front):
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3513.sized.jpg
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3514.sized.jpg

Cyl3(rear then front):
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3515.sized.jpg
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3516.sized.jpg

Cyl4(rear then front):
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3517.sized.jpg
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3518.sized.jpg


And finally, close-up of little damage on piston#4
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-engine/IMG_3519.sized.jpg


So yea there it is. Gonna finalize what to do with the engine rebuild next week but MAP is offering me an extra nice deal on their new X-beam rods for the evoX. Comments/diagnosis/suggestions welcome!

Special thanks to Kody (GG_9_SE) for the hand today, couldn't have done it alone!
Murlo26
10-31-2010, 12:37 AM
Ouch, that looks rough.

Does it look like a .020" overbore will take care of this or not so much? Tough to tell how deep it is from the pics.
FattyBoomBatty
10-31-2010, 01:36 AM
What do you mean you don't know what caused that? The pistons lost chunks when you detonated and rubbed them against the cylinder walls before spitting them up into the chambers and munching your pistons.

Just detonation mayne. Get that block sleeved and some uber pistons, your free x-beam rods (hardy har, clever name for x parts, lol) and knife edge the crank for elitism. 1000awhp, go.
mlomker
10-31-2010, 09:48 AM
What do you mean you don't know what caused that?

I think he wasn't expecting damage on all of the cylinders since he didn't mention all of the pistons chunking. I've heard that bits can visit more than one cylinder before they exit although I'm not sure how that happens.

How does the turbo look?
scheides
10-31-2010, 10:03 AM
Haven't checked the turbo for shaft play or anything but did look pretty closely at all of the fins on both wheels and w/o removing the covers to be sure, they appear to be all there.

Just talked to Shawn (simulatedwood) and he's leaning towards TTP's theory where the rings are gapped to tightly from the factory. Running good (high) timing for extended periods causes EGTs to get high and the pistons/rings fully fully expand causing the cyl wear that can be seen on all cylinders. There doesn't really appear to be detonation pitting on top of the pistons (maybe I should go take closer pics of all piston tops to verify), and he said that perhaps the knock I was seeing was induced after the ring failed.

He's the second person to mention 'cold seizure' on snowmobile engines where the piston warms up faster than the cylinder wall/block, causing a similar outcome.
Murlo26
10-31-2010, 10:11 AM
Haven't checked the turbo for shaft play or anything but did look pretty closely at all of the fins on both wheels and w/o removing the covers to be sure, they appear to be all there.

Just talked to Shawn (simulatedwood) and he's leaning towards TTP's theory where the rings are gapped to tightly from the factory. Running good (high) timing for extended periods causes EGTs to get high and the pistons/rings fully fully expand causing the cyl wear that can be seen on all cylinders. There doesn't really appear to be detonation pitting on top of the pistons (maybe I should go take closer pics of all piston tops to verify), and he said that perhaps the knock I was seeing was induced after the ring failed.

He's the second person to mention 'cold seizure' on snowmobile engines where the piston warms up faster than the cylinder wall/block, causing a similar outcome.

TTP's theory is interesting, but most other shops seem to disagree with them. I am not sold either way, but apparently the 4g63's have similar tolerances so who knows. I hate the idea that TTP could be right though, lol.
Matt D.
10-31-2010, 10:19 AM
How do the rest of the pistons and head look?

Considering how uniform the scoring is across all cylinders I'm inclined to believe the piston ring theory as well.
scheides
10-31-2010, 10:25 AM
TTP's theory is interesting, but most other shops seem to disagree with them. I am not sold either way, but apparently the 4g63's have similar tolerances so who knows. I hate the idea that TTP could be right though, lol.

Yup, fukin hate TTP but who knows. Maybe the clearances are similar on 4G63's but there's some other reason that it does this sort of thing on the 4b11t?

How do the rest of the pistons and head look?

Considering how uniform the scoring is across all cylinders I'm inclined to believe the piston ring theory as well.

The rest of the head looks fine, the rest of the pistons just have carbon build-up; I'll snap some pics later today.
simulatedwood
10-31-2010, 10:50 AM
Holy shit, the motors already out..nice work!

Looking at the pictures, Id say it is a combination of detonation and clearances, it did get hot on the exhuast side and caused bad things to happen.

Scheides, definitely have the head looked at, Ron @ RS has a vacumn tool to determine the condition of the valve seats, id give him a call. You might be lucky and just clean up the rough spots in the valve pocket on the damaged one and be done. :)
mlomker
10-31-2010, 11:04 AM
Maybe the clearances are similar on 4G63's but there's some other reason that it does this sort of thing on the 4b11t?

If the assumption is expansion/contraction then the metal composition could be different, even if the clearances were the same.