beaterX project thread

[Halon]

Does that mean I won't get banned anymore for suggesting E85?

[scheides]

Does that mean I won't get banned anymore for suggesting E85?

Muahaha, unless I say 'it's not an option' first! But now it is :D

I had to re-seat one of my injector clips (the adapter part) this am, it was loose and the car was missing when I pulled out of the garage.

Having a weird fuel curve problem, the car just wants to go way rich then steadily lean out as the run progresses. This happens if I start at 4000 or 5500rpm, dips to 10 then leans out to around 12.

http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/evox-e85-1680-leaning-out.jpg

[mlomker]

This happens if I start at 4000 or 5500rpm, dips to 10 then leans out to around 12.

Do you know if the dual voltage feature works on rpm or load? If it were load then that could explain the dip when the voltage increases.

[scheides]

I believe it is based on load which would probably explain it, but the thing is my old injectors on pump gas never did this; these must be so big they are letting a lot through....leaning it out via the fuel map shouldn't be a problem but it goes *so* rich that it's just odd to me, coupled with the fact that it steadily leans out from there even though the fuel map seems to be pretty flat up top.

It's issues like these that make me glad I have a good logging setup including wideband so I can try and troubleshoot issues before I hit the dyno with shane.

I think I will tweak the fuel map slightly and see if it helps, then probably up the boost and make sure fueling remains consistent; I sure hope this DW pump lives up to the hype--I don't have any money budgeted for a BAP.

[scheides]

Time for an update I suppose. Shane @ DB Performance, thank you! Basically I have hit an unexpected wall on my fuel system and shane has help me make the most out of it with a little bit of advice and me doing some street tuning.

Let me back up a bit. First off, why the fuk am I out of fuel on this build? I have FIC1680cc injectors and the new DeatschWerks 300-series fuel pump that should outflow a walbro any day of the week. Simple fact is that my fuel pump just doesn't seem to be keeping up. I've researched high and low (thank you EVERYONE that offered advice! LOMKER! diiirk@AWDmotorsports, Murlo, Chris@MAP, Chris@DW to name a few in addition to Shane@DB) and pretty much determined that despite the testing DW did on this pump, for whatever reason, on the X it is not keeping up utilizing the stock wiring.

I did a lot of street tuning and anytime boost is over 26psi at 8000rpm I see 13:1 AFR. Timing and afr in the rest of the map are mostly untouched from the pump gas tune in this log:
http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/evox-e85-1680-leaning-out.jpg

So, I have two options, both involve getting more voltage to the fuel pump. One, a hardware kit for teh fuel pump. This will run it at closer to 14v but *all* the time, no dual-voltage setup like stock so the stock FPR will be over-run at idle. Boo! With an aftermarket FPR kit I'll be in good shape for my setup I think. Gah, more parts wtf!?! Well Chris Carey at MAP is running this setup on his X with great luck so it is a viable option and not terribly expensive.

Side note #1: what is really the difference between the X and the 8/9 causing me (and others) to see this limit earlier than expected? I'm not sure, but there are two pieces that jump out at me. One is the stock hardline that runs along the side of the valvecover. The feed line on the 8/9 is IMHO bigger and might flow more. I'm tempted to try and find out somehow but this would be an expensive test. Next, the fuel feed line in the tank. I know others use it but I'm thinking of getting rid of this snake and replacing it with some 30w10 or whatever the hell special (uncrinkled) fuel line is:
http://www.scheides.com/gallery/evoX/dw300_4



Option two, best of both worlds IMHO. No upgrades anywhere else in the fuel system, just overclock the DW300 pump with a boost-a-pump. The street version can run up to 17.5v but I was thinking of getting one and wiring it to run the pump at ~15v for heat/longevity purposes. This setup is about as ideal as I can ask for since it only runs high voltage during boost so no AFPR needed AND I could get MORE out of the system if I ever need it. Muahahah!


Side note #2: while I'm having fuel pump issues I'm also having tons of problems with the FIC 1680's I bought second hand. I want to recommend these injectors to people as they are amazing! They run fine on pump gas and (theoretically) have enough flow to make pretty epic power on e85. The problems I'm having are with the mounting spacers (I got none, and they sent me new ones that didn't fit either) and the OMFGGODDAMNIT injector adapter harnesses. This is what I have been forced to do:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/IMG_0008.sized.jpg
Otherwise the clip comes loose and the car misfires horribly. Regularly. Gah! FIC has done an AMAZING job and I hate to even post this info until after I receive all of the parts they put in the mail yesterday but fuk it, it is testiment to their amazing customer service and top-notch quality. I will post more pics/info when I get them.


Ok back on track, what most people and myself overlook is OPTION 3--TURN DOWN THE BOOST! Wait wut? I know, its insane, but the car is already feeling amazing on e85...for now I simply have turned down WGDC to zero across the board on my hybrid boost control setup and am basically running just a MBC. I turned up the boost on the MBC and let the thing taper to ~25psi at 8000rpm, just barely within the limits of the fuel system as it sits. It sucks, but hey, make the most of it!

This is where Shane came in, he has helped me dial this thing in...it is still pretty damn conservative, only 17° of timing up top and 9° during boost onset but it is damn consistent now (for the past week timing would jump all over the place under boost) and it mofukin rips! Timing steps up nice and evenly and afr is right around 12:1 all the way across the board. This is two runs back-to-back, obviously I started at different rpms/speeds, thus boost is ever so slightly different way down low:
http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/evox-e85-tuning-mbc-only-fuelpump-maxed.jpg

That is about as good as I am going to expect out of this lil beaterX for now. Whenever I get some fundage I'll score a BAP and turn it up and hit the dyno, but for now its ALL SMILES as this thing runs fantastic and it is a hoot all over the powerband!

I am just barely at the limit of the fuel system now, before I was pegging 115% IDC waaaay earlier:
http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/evox-e85-tuning-mbc-only-fuelpump-maxed-idc.jpg


One more fun item to add to this um.....long and rambling post--my brother bought me a GoPro HD for my b-day. Definitely turn the quality up to 720 but these things are fantastic. Turns out my neighbor is the local GoPro rep, he saw me fiddling with it and ran over. First a tour of tornado-damaged minneapolis, then some rippin near the end:
urjfUEosJV0

BIR is only a few weeks away, hoping to get fuel system issues sorted by then....hope everyone else is working on making their car fast as much as I have been!

[mlomker]

Next, the fuel feed line in the tank. I know others use it but I'm thinking of getting rid of this snake and replacing it with some 30w10 or whatever the hell special (uncrinkled) fuel line is:
http://www.scheides.com/gallery/evoX/dw300_4

Not saying it's an issue but I use the Ultimate Racing install kit and their instructions have you route the hose differently.

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae80/mlomker/2011%20May/stockhanger1.jpg

Well Chris Carey at MAP is running this setup on his X with great luck so it is a viable option and not terribly expensive.

I wonder if it ended up working for Zivman, from the other forum. He hasn't returned to comment. I say that because isn't Chris Carey on stock turbo? Not much of a test otherwise.

BIR is only a few weeks away, hoping to get fuel system issues sorted by then.

I'm feeling doubtful about my car at the moment. It'd be nice to be able to drive it up there, that's for sure.

[Matt D.]

I had to laugh at the GoPro moving from the wind. Is there a way to tighten it more or are you forced to deal with that?

[scheides]

Not saying it's an issue but I use the Ultimate Racing install kit and their instructions have you route the hose differently.

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae80/mlomker/2011%20May/stockhanger1.jpg

Yea, I sorta screwed the pooch installing mine, I had the pump out of the bracket when pushing on that hose...once its on its on...and thats why it ended up the way it did. It's not kinked anywhere but this is the reason I got some of that other hose, to try and route it more smoothly.



I wonder if it ended up working for Zivman, from the other forum. He hasn't returned to comment. I say that because isn't Chris Carey on stock turbo? Not much of a test otherwise.


Yea, he said he hit the limit aaaand they have a new turbo program they're about to launch so...you do the math :) We'll see I guess but he was very honest and plain about running into the limit and rewiring it helping. To me the kinda downside to a rewire vs a BAP is that 14v is all you get. If I go with a BAP at least I can turn it up later if need be :)

[scheides]

I had to laugh at the GoPro moving from the wind. Is there a way to tighten it more or are you forced to deal with that?

Yea just need more practice with the rigging thats all :)

[mlomker]

once its on its on

I managed to get mine off the other day when I swapped pumps but it did result in an E85 bath. :rock2: