March for health care!

[john]

Think again. Compare a toll road to (paid for by tolls rather than taxes so if anything its actually costing you less to drive on) to lets say Hwy 169 for example. One on smooth and generally free-flowing, the other is rough and backs up quite often; I'll let you figure out which is which. Our road system here is a nightmare compared to a lot of other areas of the country and MNDOT always seems to be one step behind when it comes to updates/expansions. Enough said.


So in MN you want to try and compare HWY 169 with 2 lanes to 394 with 3 lanes, one being a carpool/toll?? I think that is a pretty bad comparison. I don't have a problem with the roads. Obviously Mndot has to prioritize so they will fix a busy road like HWY 169 before a road out in St. Cloud. Simple cost/benefit approach.

I would like to argue in this thread in regards to the health care battle but like most of you, I do not know enough about it where I should be spouting my opinion off as fact. Just because Obama is pushing for this doesn't mean it is going to happen. Last I checked the president couldn't write and sign legislation into law. I have a feeling that most of the people who argue politics on here have no idea what is going on. They hear their parents or friends talk down on the plan (or other issues) and think that it is the best side of the story. MN is a democratic state, Obama won the election, deal with it.

[1QUICK4]

MN is a democratic state, Obama won the election, deal with it.

Nobody except you and Tom are talking about Obama. The topic is about Socialist health care, not Obama.

He is not the 1st to try and push this kind of stuff through the system. I just dont want the Guberment (any party or branch) having thier hands in my health. Period

[NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE]

Anyone watch his speech tonight? It was too much for one guy at work to watch, it was funny. But seriously, check out these rockin' quotes!

Obama also defended his proposal for government-run public health insurance as an option for consumers, saying it would force private insurers to lower costs. However, he called the provision one alternative for increasing competition for health insurance and signaled his openness to alternatives.

He's not dead set like a stampede for a full government option. He's not some close minded.....................


republican, well a god damn majority of em'

"Let me be clear... it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance," "No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up."

Wow, that'd really shut down insurance companies that don't even have the 3-5% of uninsured Americans that would be able to afford a public option.

Oh fuck that 5% means Socialism wins!!!

"I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can't find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice."

There is nothing bad about this, I don't care what you think? Why can't the most bad-ass fucking balling out of control rich nation afford to insure it's own people? Yes, other nation's ways of doing may be flawed, but they do it.

Regardless of what anyone's views are, in the end, this whole ridiculous "health care reform war of ultimate strife" is to just plainly lower health care costs and get rid of all the absolute nonsense in the system now. Things can always be improved upon, like Evo's. Think of it as adding a 3" exhaust or a huge fuckin' 600mm turbo.

And if anyone thinks the government's hands are gonna be all up in yo insurance business, the fucking insurance company is already in yo business. They tell you who to see, when to see them, where they are, or whatever they do (I have never had insurance so I don't know the personal experiences with it) and what's so bad about the government saying that? It's kinda like switching companies.

I do however 100% disagree with Obama wanting it law that you have health insurance, like having car insurance in most states. Obviously taxes will increase to support a public option, but if my taxes go up then fuck having it be law that I buy a plan or whatever when I'm already paying in with taxes. That's like it'd be illegal to be alive almost.

[1QUICK4]

"Let me be clear... it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance," "No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up."

How is not going to effect me? Who is going to pay for it?

There are already programs in place for the uninsured.

[NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE]

Hmmmmm... a public option? Hmmmmmmm..... taxes! Unfortuantely...

That's be my best guess, but I think a lot of people know and believe that there is so much waste and fraud and other b.s. in the system that the savings from that could come from there alone to fund it, that is for the 3-5% of people that would go for it.

But that's just a scenario for a public option. It's not like a public option is what's gonna happen here, who the hell knows what's gonna happen. Shit, God himself is probably crackin' a beer and eating cheetos and scratchin' his head.

[1QUICK4]

And if anyone thinks the government's hands are gonna be all up in yo insurance business, the fucking insurance company is already in yo business. They tell you who to see, when to see them, where they are, or whatever they do (I have never had insurance so I don't know the personal experiences with it) and what's so bad about the government saying that?

I have never had a problem going where I want and going when I wanted to. If anybody else on here has well then they can chime in If you have no experience in a feild it's best not to make assumptions.

As far as what's so bad about the government stepping in. At least all my insurance company's out of the many I've gone through over the years have run a pretty well organized buisness. They stick within thier budget and are very efficient at what they do. Something I've never seen the Government do in my lifetime.

Hmmmmm... a public option? Hmmmmmmm..... taxes! Unfortuantely...

Then I guess it does effect me :D ;)

[NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE]

I have never had a problem going where I want and going when I wanted to. If anybody else on here has well then they can chime in If you have no experience in a feild it's best not to make assumptions.

As far as what's so bad about the government stepping in. At least all my insurance company's out of the many I've gone through over the years have run a pretty well organized buisness. They stick within thier budget and are very efficient at what they do. Something I've never seen the Government do in my lifetime.

So then what's to just automatically say that you will have a problem with them right away or something? Like Obama said, he's not going to force you to choose. If you like your care, and your price and whatever it is that appeals to you and want to keep it, then keep it. And I'm not making assumptions, that's not my thing. I've seen things first had from friends dealing with shit like going to see all these damn specialists and doctor after doctor only to have the original insurance company say, "Oh yea, that doctor we sent you to, who sent you to a bunch of other doctors, aren't in our network, and they want to be compensated. Here's a bill for a fuckload of money." A guy at work here now owes over $3000 dollars as of today to all these doctors for the original doctors mistake, and this was over a month ago, and nothing has become of it. Either it must be really busy for the insurance company to take care of or that's how it is, regardless of a hiccup.

And I think that this whole health care cost thing has gotten so serious, that it will have to be taken 100% seriously. I mean shit, IT'S GOTTEN THE MOST ATTENTION OF ANYTHING IN MY LIFETIME! Except for Monica Lewinski and 9/11. People are going on the most ignorant shouting rants, calling Obama a Nazi, accosting people in town-hall meetings, shit, yelling "YOU LIE!!!", like senator Joe Wilson (R, SC). This is something that can and will bankrupt our nation, as it already is and has countless numbers of people already. So maybe it's time the government stepped it up a notch is a better way of thinking, rather than just saying "Oh well based on all the other flops and hilarious foul ups, they can't get anything right."

[Matt D.]

There are already programs in place for the uninsured.
Exactly. I pointed that out in one of my examples, I've personally dealt with it and it works.

[john]

^^ Well good for you. I bought a house when I was ~19 and going to college. Since I didn't live at home anymore I was not covered under our familiy insurance. Coverage was too expensive so I couldn't afford any. My old job didn't offer it so I was without for over 3 years. If there was a reasonable option I would have gotten it.

The problem I see with inusurance is that most people are suckered into buying cadillac policies when they do not need them. I was talking to a partner at my work and he was saying how expensive it was due to this reason. I never get sick (haven't missed a day of school or work since HS and I probably wasn't sick) and only need insurance to cover disasters. At our firm, health partners does not offer such a policy. I probably wouldn't have health insurance if it wasn't paid 100% by my work.

1QUICK4 - inusurance companies do try and force you to go to certain doctors, they call it being in the network. If you want to go to a specialist, you typically have to get a referral by someone in the network to get out. An example of this was when a doctor at Park Nicolate had to refer my mom to the Mayo Clinic.

[john]

Nobody except you and Tom are talking about Obama. The topic is about Socialist health care, not Obama.


Go back to page 1, hit Ctrl + F and search for Obama. First you will notice that the first post by Joesushi mentions him, then you will see it on posts by:

Matt D
Tom
A/// Guy
Fattyboombatty
Halon

That is just PAGE 1. You can go through the other pages if you like but it is not just Tom and I talking about Obama.