Shooting at Fort Hood, TX

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

Reminds me of simple quote: Those who forget the past are condemmed to repeat it.

I agree. We need to learn from the past (last week) and make the necessary changes. Its what those changes are that we differ on.

I was actually going to bring the Japanese internment camps up in a previous post but decided against it to not stir up a whole new can of worms, but in short, I feel this country did what it had to do to best protect itself. In hindsight it probably was not the best decision as the only convicted Japanese spys were white, but hindsight is 20/20 and it very easily could have gone the opposite direction.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

So, let me get this straight. Based on what most of you have said here it sounds like you guys would have been in favor of the Japanese internment camps during World War 2. Do you also favor McCarthyism?

No need for camps during war. This is how I look at it. Everybody has their view of life, religion, war, etc. But if there is a clear sign of conflict of interest, then some considerations should be made. The FBI admits they knew he was contacting members of al Qaeda, yet because of political correctness, innocent people who were serving this country (you and me) were killed. This is where the "less of two evils" comes into play. I would rather this one individual be inconveniently bothered with questions about his beliefs while in our military, than have 13 people die and 30+ get injured. Common sense goes a long way, too bad it doesn't get practiced that much anymore.

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

And, 1ViciousGSX, when you say "If anybody wants to turn this country into something that models what another country is or does..." who or what are you referring to? Correct me if I am wrong but I'm pretty sure this country was founded under the principles of equality for all men and freedom from political and religious persecution.

I'm referring to people who think they know what's best for the rest of us, based solely on their financial status and political or religious beliefs. We are "The Last Place of True Freedom" in the modern world. People come here from other countries because of our Constitution. "Because America is Great". But it seems once they get here it turns into "Hey America is cool, but it should be more like my old country". If you are here, you are on American soil, so act like it. I think it's a disgrace to come here and protest our flag while waving your own. It's cool if you are from another country and want to represent your homeland, BUT the American flag should fly above any other country flag on your flag pole.

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

Reminds me of simple quote: Those who forget the past are condemmed to repeat it.

Funny you should say that, this country was founded by a group of men who had enough of high taxation and the iron clad rule of a king (insert government here) where their freedoms were taken away. Open your eyes and you will see.

Example, Obamas-Pelosi Care has a provision to force you to buy health insurance or pay a fine or go to jail. Their argument is that it's not fair for everybody else to pay for your coverage. But isn't that what is happening? Quote "We are insuring the uninsured". If I choose not to have health care insurance, how does that cost you more? If I'm sick and go to the hospital, the insurance company is not loosing money because they are not paying for my treatment, I am. Read the bill and show me one section that truly improves your health care. It's all about power, money and bureaucracy. Did you know there is a provision that stops you from personally paying for a treatment that is not covered by Obama-Pelosi Care? No, I'm not making it up.

[A//// Guy]

I also dont know how you guys can say all muslims shouldnt be allowed to fight for our country... Im all for fair punishment but you group all of that religion into one category.

It is just like the Japanese camps in WW2, thats a perfect analogy. You cant blame a whole group of similar people for one man or one corrupt groups actions...

[TheBlizzard]

Every country has made mistakes in the past and punished innocent people for what others have done, thats life, and the same thing happens in all forms. Look at how many people are wrongly convicted of crimes because of stereotyping, people just have to get over it and move on.

Muslims shouldn't get offended at an airport when people look at them funny because they have rags on their heads and are speaking a bunch of fucking jibberish. Don't they remember that a group of the same looking people took over a few jets and killed 4000+ innocent people just a number of years ago? Of course people are going to stereotype and discriminate, I mean come on.

The guy who did all the shooting was a single sleeper cell terrorist plain and simple, which just so happens to be the hardest ones to catch. But in this case there were clear signs that he could be up to something and nothing was done. Vicious said it perfectly, nothing was done because god for bid if you accuse a Muslim of being a terrorist or insinuate that he might cause harm to people around him because of his radical beliefs. This politically correct bullshit has to stop or more innocent people are going to die at the hands of these extremists.

I stand firm on my opinion, don't let anymore god damn people into this country, and through attrition you will weed out most of the shit bags that only come here to leech off the system and in rare cases kill people.

And Peter comparing WW2 to what is happening now isn't comparing apples to apples, what is happening now is far more dangerous, there isn't one group or one leader that is getting people to follow his lead, it's the religion and beliefs of one religion that is dangerous. The vastness is way to big to quantify, and you cannot pinpoint who is going to strike next. Look at this shitbag that did all the shooting, he was a soldier for years, he commited to our military knowing that he would someday do what he did. Thats why it is so dangerous, these people are willing to intergrate into society and embed themselves deep, so when they strike their impact really hits home.

Nobody wins on this subject, it will never happen, you are always going to have two sides.

[Kracka]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

With all this proof anyone who attempts to claims this wasn't a terrorist attack is clueless.

[asshanson]

I can see this was a domestic terrorist act, and I believe military people who only fly their home country's flags not acceptable. That's just stupid.

But how about the millions of Muslim US citizens who fly the US flag in earnest? I also agree we shouldn't allow non-citizens in the military, but the point I argue is that you shouldn't discard them all as terrorists. I hope we have a few Muslim members that will agree with me.

[TheBlizzard]

I don't think anybody is saying all Muslim are terrorist's; that would be just plain ignorant, I can only speak for myself though. The point I am trying to make is that all Muslims have only their "own" people to blame for the stereotyping that goes on these days, they should not get offended at an Airport if they get questioned regarding their intentions to fly or what have you. If anything they should be pissed off at the people that hijacked Airplanes and killed thousands of people out of nowhere.

Muslim's need to just face reality and admit that right now is not a good time to be a practicing Muslim in the United States, not because all Muslims are terrorist's, but for the mere fact that a stereotype has been formed that they all hate the United States in some shape or form, and that they can integrate into society for years and years and then all of the sudden bam blow up a shopping mall for no reason at all.


I mean shit even serial killers have some form of motive, sex, thrill, adolesent rejection, the list goes on. These "terrorist's" have no motive other than their "god" told them it was a good idea over breakfast.

[Halon]

This thread is aweful.

[Kracka]

This thread is going no where. Everyone has their beliefs and its quite apparent nobody is changing their minds. I just hope there are no more deaths due to these terrorist muslims infiltrating our military and I think we can all agree to that.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by kracka

this thread is going no where. Everyone has their beliefs and its quite apparent nobody is changing their minds. I just hope there are no more deaths due to these terrorist muslims infiltrating our military and i think we can all agree to that.

+1,000,000

[1ViciousGSX]

Interesting chain of events in this thread.

I don't remember anybody saying that all Muslims are terrorist anywhere in this thread?? But you can make of it anything you want.

Let me pose a question:
Since it has been "inferred" that we shouldn't allow Muslims into the military at this time because we are fighting Muslim based terrorist, would you have let die-hard Hitler & Nazi supporters into the U.S. Military during WWII? What about a Registered Communist Russian supporter during the cold war? This guy proclaimed his beliefs out in the open for all to see and nothing was done because of "race", "religion" and "political correctness". He wasn't just a Muslim fighting along side of the U.S Military, he was contacting members of al Qaeda in an effort to do something along the lines of what he did. The FBI knew it and did nothing about it.

The problem here is that this is the first war where an enemy's uniform is the same as their civilian dress and you can't just "spot" the enemy in a crowded room unless he's packing an AK47 in plain site.

Am I for discrimination? Hell NO!! But in a time of war (REMEMBER WE ARE AT WAR) we have to use common sense and take into account that a religious group has targeted innocent American civilians. This is the worst kind of war because it's not just one military against another where the soldiers know who they are fighting on the battle field. And a religion based war is the worst kind because of the radicals who bastardize their religion into something that justifies killing innocent civilians.

Blizzard, let me fix your statement here:
"However you admit that not letting someone into the military because of their religion/beliefs is discrimination; that LIBERAL outlook on the way our military and country should be run is why 13 people are dead right now and another 40+ are injured. Not to mention what happened on 9/11."

RLFebo:
Let me catch you posting anything like "you racist, ignorant effs" again and I will personally ban you from the site permanently! For now it will be a 1 week ban.

It's really a shame we can't have an open discussion as mature adults without somebody's panties getting all wadded up!!!

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

Am I for discrimination? Hell NO!! But in a time of war (REMEMBER WE ARE AT WAR) we have to use common sense and take into account that a religious group has targeted innocent American civilians.

People seem to forget this very simple fact since here most of us sit in our comfy protected lives worrying about protecting some terrorist's feelings while our fellow Americans are getting blown up and shot not only overseas but here on our own soil.

[A//// Guy]

I dont get why he would be banned for that? There is a lot of racist thoughts in this thread. Its not totally direct blows, but they are there.

I dont agree with the military not doing anything about this dude having ties with terrorism. That doesn't make any sense why they would just let it slide when they had proof he was tied to terrorist activity.

I have muslim friends as well, and Id be proud if they fought for the US. All you people saying muslims shouldnt be allowed to fight for this country, even though they are US citizens, need to get a clue.

Vicious- How does having muslims fighting for us even compare to Nazis fighting for the US back in WW2. That makes no sense at all. Nazisism isnt a religion, neither is communism. You cant compare a religion to political agenda and thought. Thats like saying if all nazis were Christian, we couldnt have any Christians fighting for the US in WW2...

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by A//// Guy

I dont get why he would be banned for that? There is a lot of racist thoughts in this thread. Its not totally direct blows, but they are there.

How does having muslims fighting for us even compare to Nazis fighting for the US back in WW2. That makes no sense at all. Nazisism isnt a religion, neither is communism. You cant compare a religion to political agenda and thought.

There is a lot of bad in this thread but we don't need member bashing to be added to that list. The forum rules are simple.

Viscious' comparison is dead-on accurate. What exactly is the difference between religion and political agenda? Nothing, both are thoughts and beliefs, nothing more.

[hellomynameis]

Originally Posted by Kracka

Viscious' comparison is dead-on accurate. What exactly is the difference between religion and political agenda? Nothing, both are thoughts and beliefs, nothing more.

No, it's not! You guys keep implying that if you are Muslim you must either be a terrorist or support terrorism. If you are a Nazi you have made a conscious decision to support certain positions on the worthiness of other people. Being a Muslim doesn't not automatically mean you hate all Americans and wish to kill them. There are millions of practicing Muslims who do not support this view and I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of them serving in the US armed forces because they do not agree with the extremist terrorist Muslims and wish to see them dead as much as you or I.

Why is this so hard to understand? Do I need to draw you a Venn diagram?

Also, for any of you who have implied that I am a liberal, you're way off the mark. I'm simply a person who doesn't accept the blanket discrimination and or segregation of anyone because it is morally wrong!

And seriously, RLFebo doesn't deserve to be banned, despite his misuse of the word racist, he's 100% correct. You guys are bigots, plain and simple. Ban me for a week, a year, or life. I don't care; you disgust me.

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

You guys keep implying that if you are Muslim you must either be a terrorist or support terrorism.

You guys keep saying this but please tell me where one of us has actually said it? As far as I'm concerned all of us have made it very clear that we understand not all muslims are bad people and/or terrorists.

[A//// Guy]

Originally Posted by Kracka

Viscious' comparison is dead-on accurate. What exactly is the difference between religion and political agenda? Nothing, both are thoughts and beliefs, nothing more.

Haha wow.. the ignorance in this thread is amazing.

Negative political agendas are not the same as a personal religious belief. Unless you are using your religion to fuel war, and in some Muslims cases, this is true. You are grouping all Muslims into one category, and that's wrong.

And Im going to totally agree with Hellomynameis on the racist/ban talk.

[trunks11]

It is a sad irony on humanity that religions which are supposedly founded on peace are constantly used for propaganda for death and destruction. The cycle of hate continues back and forth as it always has in our history from the dawn of civilization.

Does religion cause violence, or does man use religion as an excuse for violence?

I don't know the answer. Whenever something like this happens I find myself angered by the religious affiliation of the perpetrators. However, I then realize that it is the very anger that I feel towards them that they felt at some point towards a country or religion that has fueled their actions.

From the Crusades to WWII to the Gulf War and Afghanistan; we just keep on killing each other.

[Kracka]

Call me names all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, but if you break religion or political affiliation down into the simplest of terms they're both nothing more than personal (or group) thoughts, feelings, and beliefs.

[A//// Guy]

Then why did you guys say they shouldn't be allowed in the military?