Shooting at Fort Hood, TX

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

Reminds me of simple quote: Those who forget the past are condemmed to repeat it.

I agree. We need to learn from the past (last week) and make the necessary changes. Its what those changes are that we differ on.

I was actually going to bring the Japanese internment camps up in a previous post but decided against it to not stir up a whole new can of worms, but in short, I feel this country did what it had to do to best protect itself. In hindsight it probably was not the best decision as the only convicted Japanese spys were white, but hindsight is 20/20 and it very easily could have gone the opposite direction.

[A//// Guy]

I also dont know how you guys can say all muslims shouldnt be allowed to fight for our country... Im all for fair punishment but you group all of that religion into one category.

It is just like the Japanese camps in WW2, thats a perfect analogy. You cant blame a whole group of similar people for one man or one corrupt groups actions...

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

So, let me get this straight. Based on what most of you have said here it sounds like you guys would have been in favor of the Japanese internment camps during World War 2. Do you also favor McCarthyism?

No need for camps during war. This is how I look at it. Everybody has their view of life, religion, war, etc. But if there is a clear sign of conflict of interest, then some considerations should be made. The FBI admits they knew he was contacting members of al Qaeda, yet because of political correctness, innocent people who were serving this country (you and me) were killed. This is where the "less of two evils" comes into play. I would rather this one individual be inconveniently bothered with questions about his beliefs while in our military, than have 13 people die and 30+ get injured. Common sense goes a long way, too bad it doesn't get practiced that much anymore.

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

And, 1ViciousGSX, when you say "If anybody wants to turn this country into something that models what another country is or does..." who or what are you referring to? Correct me if I am wrong but I'm pretty sure this country was founded under the principles of equality for all men and freedom from political and religious persecution.

I'm referring to people who think they know what's best for the rest of us, based solely on their financial status and political or religious beliefs. We are "The Last Place of True Freedom" in the modern world. People come here from other countries because of our Constitution. "Because America is Great". But it seems once they get here it turns into "Hey America is cool, but it should be more like my old country". If you are here, you are on American soil, so act like it. I think it's a disgrace to come here and protest our flag while waving your own. It's cool if you are from another country and want to represent your homeland, BUT the American flag should fly above any other country flag on your flag pole.

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

Reminds me of simple quote: Those who forget the past are condemmed to repeat it.

Funny you should say that, this country was founded by a group of men who had enough of high taxation and the iron clad rule of a king (insert government here) where their freedoms were taken away. Open your eyes and you will see.

Example, Obamas-Pelosi Care has a provision to force you to buy health insurance or pay a fine or go to jail. Their argument is that it's not fair for everybody else to pay for your coverage. But isn't that what is happening? Quote "We are insuring the uninsured". If I choose not to have health care insurance, how does that cost you more? If I'm sick and go to the hospital, the insurance company is not loosing money because they are not paying for my treatment, I am. Read the bill and show me one section that truly improves your health care. It's all about power, money and bureaucracy. Did you know there is a provision that stops you from personally paying for a treatment that is not covered by Obama-Pelosi Care? No, I'm not making it up.

[TheBlizzard]

Every country has made mistakes in the past and punished innocent people for what others have done, thats life, and the same thing happens in all forms. Look at how many people are wrongly convicted of crimes because of stereotyping, people just have to get over it and move on.

Muslims shouldn't get offended at an airport when people look at them funny because they have rags on their heads and are speaking a bunch of fucking jibberish. Don't they remember that a group of the same looking people took over a few jets and killed 4000+ innocent people just a number of years ago? Of course people are going to stereotype and discriminate, I mean come on.

The guy who did all the shooting was a single sleeper cell terrorist plain and simple, which just so happens to be the hardest ones to catch. But in this case there were clear signs that he could be up to something and nothing was done. Vicious said it perfectly, nothing was done because god for bid if you accuse a Muslim of being a terrorist or insinuate that he might cause harm to people around him because of his radical beliefs. This politically correct bullshit has to stop or more innocent people are going to die at the hands of these extremists.

I stand firm on my opinion, don't let anymore god damn people into this country, and through attrition you will weed out most of the shit bags that only come here to leech off the system and in rare cases kill people.

And Peter comparing WW2 to what is happening now isn't comparing apples to apples, what is happening now is far more dangerous, there isn't one group or one leader that is getting people to follow his lead, it's the religion and beliefs of one religion that is dangerous. The vastness is way to big to quantify, and you cannot pinpoint who is going to strike next. Look at this shitbag that did all the shooting, he was a soldier for years, he commited to our military knowing that he would someday do what he did. Thats why it is so dangerous, these people are willing to intergrate into society and embed themselves deep, so when they strike their impact really hits home.

Nobody wins on this subject, it will never happen, you are always going to have two sides.

[Kracka]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

With all this proof anyone who attempts to claims this wasn't a terrorist attack is clueless.

[asshanson]

I can see this was a domestic terrorist act, and I believe military people who only fly their home country's flags not acceptable. That's just stupid.

But how about the millions of Muslim US citizens who fly the US flag in earnest? I also agree we shouldn't allow non-citizens in the military, but the point I argue is that you shouldn't discard them all as terrorists. I hope we have a few Muslim members that will agree with me.

[Project2G]

Originally Posted by Kracka

Of course we have a huge conflict of interest! I spoke with a family member of mine in the military and asked why we allow muslims in the United States military and I was told its because we're desperate for soldiers.

I dissagree with that. We are not desperate for soldiers. Every branch right now has a delayed entry program because there are so many recruits. The military is sending out troops to basic training every Monday. Just my .02 from an enlisted Marine.

[TheBlizzard]

I don't think anybody is saying all Muslim are terrorist's; that would be just plain ignorant, I can only speak for myself though. The point I am trying to make is that all Muslims have only their "own" people to blame for the stereotyping that goes on these days, they should not get offended at an Airport if they get questioned regarding their intentions to fly or what have you. If anything they should be pissed off at the people that hijacked Airplanes and killed thousands of people out of nowhere.

Muslim's need to just face reality and admit that right now is not a good time to be a practicing Muslim in the United States, not because all Muslims are terrorist's, but for the mere fact that a stereotype has been formed that they all hate the United States in some shape or form, and that they can integrate into society for years and years and then all of the sudden bam blow up a shopping mall for no reason at all.


I mean shit even serial killers have some form of motive, sex, thrill, adolesent rejection, the list goes on. These "terrorist's" have no motive other than their "god" told them it was a good idea over breakfast.

[TheBlizzard]

Originally Posted by Project2G

I dissagree with that. We are not desperate for soldiers. Every branch right now has a delayed entry program because there are so many recruits. The military is sending out troops to basic training every Monday. Just my .02 from an enlisted Marine.

So if that is true then why is the military enlisting individuals even before they are a citizen of the United States? That doesn't make sense, if we didn't need soldiers you would think they could be more selective on who they enlist, like people with the name Hassan.

[goodhart]

Originally Posted by Project2G

I dissagree with that. We are not desperate for soldiers. Every branch right now has a delayed entry program because there are so many recruits. The military is sending out troops to basic training every Monday. Just my .02 from an enlisted Marine.

x2 The MN guard is waaaay over-strength right now, to the point where new recruits are having to go on a 6-8 month waiting list just to ship to basic training.

Originally Posted by TheBlizzard

So if that is true then why is the military enlisting individuals even before they are a citizen of the United States? That doesn't make sense, if we didn't need soldiers you would think they could be more selective on who they enlist, like people with the name Hassan.

Not allowing someone into the military because of their name is just plain stupid. Not allowing someone into the military because of their religion is called descrimination. They have been allowing non-citizens join for a long time also.

A non-citizen can enlist in the military. However, federal law prohibits non-citizens from becoming commission or warrant officers.
In order for a non-citizen to enlist in the military, he/she must first be a legal immigrant (with a green card), permamently residing in the United States. It's important to note that the military cannot and will not assist in the immigration process. One must immigrate first, using normal immigration quotas and procedures, and once they've established an address in the United States they can find a recruiter's office and apply for enlistment. Hell, when I was in Iraq, they had a huge ass naturalization ceremony where a few hundred people got their US citizenship.

[TheBlizzard]

The last name comment was a joke, obviously you didn't catch it. However you admit that not letting someone into the military because of their religion/beliefs is discrimination; that conservative outlook on the way our military and country should be run is why 13 people are dead right now and another 40+ are injured. Not to mention what happened on 9/11.

God for fucking bid if we discriminated against a Muslim and told him/her we don't want to take the risk of him/her killing a bunch of people down the road. If it never happened before I could see pulling the discrimination card, but considering the circumstances and past events who gives a fuck if someones feelings get hurt, at least people might not die because of it.

The whole reason they didn't call out this Hassan dude about his talks with a known terrorist is because they didn't want to look like they were discriminating or calling him out because of his religion, and LOOK WHERE THAT GOT THEM!

[Febo]

Originally Posted by Project2G

I dissagree with that. We are not desperate for soldiers. Every branch right now has a delayed entry program because there are so many recruits. The military is sending out troops to basic training every Monday. Just my .02 from an enlisted Marine.

Holy crap do I ever agree with this.

And man I cant even read this entire thread. It just turned into the typical racist load that seems to be prevelant on this board.

I know muslims in the military that have NO qualms with killing the terrorist and isurgant scum that are the cause of this war.

MUSLIM DOES NOT = TERRORIST you racist, ignorant effs.

If you wanted to go on that logic then

WHITE MAN = KKK, go hang some black people. Or hate on some Jews, because with your logic towards muslims its the same damn thing.

You all want to just PRETEND that white Christians Extremists arent JUST as bad as Muslim Extremists.

Times like these I'm glad to be a tolerant Agnostic. And by tolerant I mean towards religions, not racist ignorant BS.

[Halon]

This thread is aweful.

[TheBlizzard]

Originally Posted by RLFebo

MUSLIM DOES NOT = TERRORIST you racist, ignorant effs.

Where did you read that? I re-read the whole thread and couldn't find where somebody said that all Muslims are Terrorist's? Unless somebody edited their post; if not it appears as if you are making shit up in order to attempt to make a point about something that was never said, which last time I checked is 'ignorant'.

Bottom line is this country just needs to re-think some of it's security measures when it comes to whom they let into the military and who they let into this country.

And Brandon you're right, this thread is aweful, it sucks this country has came to these kind of discussions. The worst isn't over by far though the way things are going.

Blizzard - Signing Off

[hellomynameis]

Originally Posted by TheBlizzard

Where did you read that? I re-read the whole thread and couldn't find where somebody said that all Muslims are Terrorist's? Unless somebody edited their post; if not it appears as if you are making shit up in order to attempt to make a point about something that was never said, which last time I checked is 'ignorant'.

You're right, there is no direct quote. However, it is easily inferred from several comments. The idea of not allowing any Muslim into our armed forces solely because they are a Muslim and some Muslims are terrorists effectively groups them all together as terrorists.

What you, and others, seem to be failing to understand is that the actions of any subset of a group do not define the entire group and when you knowingly and willfully deny the entire group any of the rights they are given by being a citizen of the United States of America you are discriminating. It's disgusting to think that any of you would want to do this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of profiling because it seems to work. Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. However, you can't strip search every Muslim person that goes through the airport, it's not the same thing.

[Kracka]

This thread is going no where. Everyone has their beliefs and its quite apparent nobody is changing their minds. I just hope there are no more deaths due to these terrorist muslims infiltrating our military and I think we can all agree to that.

[1ViciousGSX]

Interesting chain of events in this thread.

I don't remember anybody saying that all Muslims are terrorist anywhere in this thread?? But you can make of it anything you want.

Let me pose a question:
Since it has been "inferred" that we shouldn't allow Muslims into the military at this time because we are fighting Muslim based terrorist, would you have let die-hard Hitler & Nazi supporters into the U.S. Military during WWII? What about a Registered Communist Russian supporter during the cold war? This guy proclaimed his beliefs out in the open for all to see and nothing was done because of "race", "religion" and "political correctness". He wasn't just a Muslim fighting along side of the U.S Military, he was contacting members of al Qaeda in an effort to do something along the lines of what he did. The FBI knew it and did nothing about it.

The problem here is that this is the first war where an enemy's uniform is the same as their civilian dress and you can't just "spot" the enemy in a crowded room unless he's packing an AK47 in plain site.

Am I for discrimination? Hell NO!! But in a time of war (REMEMBER WE ARE AT WAR) we have to use common sense and take into account that a religious group has targeted innocent American civilians. This is the worst kind of war because it's not just one military against another where the soldiers know who they are fighting on the battle field. And a religion based war is the worst kind because of the radicals who bastardize their religion into something that justifies killing innocent civilians.

Blizzard, let me fix your statement here:
"However you admit that not letting someone into the military because of their religion/beliefs is discrimination; that LIBERAL outlook on the way our military and country should be run is why 13 people are dead right now and another 40+ are injured. Not to mention what happened on 9/11."

RLFebo:
Let me catch you posting anything like "you racist, ignorant effs" again and I will personally ban you from the site permanently! For now it will be a 1 week ban.

It's really a shame we can't have an open discussion as mature adults without somebody's panties getting all wadded up!!!

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by kracka

this thread is going no where. Everyone has their beliefs and its quite apparent nobody is changing their minds. I just hope there are no more deaths due to these terrorist muslims infiltrating our military and i think we can all agree to that.

+1,000,000

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

Am I for discrimination? Hell NO!! But in a time of war (REMEMBER WE ARE AT WAR) we have to use common sense and take into account that a religious group has targeted innocent American civilians.

People seem to forget this very simple fact since here most of us sit in our comfy protected lives worrying about protecting some terrorist's feelings while our fellow Americans are getting blown up and shot not only overseas but here on our own soil.

[A//// Guy]

I dont get why he would be banned for that? There is a lot of racist thoughts in this thread. Its not totally direct blows, but they are there.

I dont agree with the military not doing anything about this dude having ties with terrorism. That doesn't make any sense why they would just let it slide when they had proof he was tied to terrorist activity.

I have muslim friends as well, and Id be proud if they fought for the US. All you people saying muslims shouldnt be allowed to fight for this country, even though they are US citizens, need to get a clue.

Vicious- How does having muslims fighting for us even compare to Nazis fighting for the US back in WW2. That makes no sense at all. Nazisism isnt a religion, neither is communism. You cant compare a religion to political agenda and thought. Thats like saying if all nazis were Christian, we couldnt have any Christians fighting for the US in WW2...