E85

[Shotgun!]

Originally Posted by DSMStyle

I need to start looking into this as an option for the Jeep. That big V8 drinks like a fish.

Why? Worse mileage means more spent at the pumps.

[98gstaherns]

Originally Posted by ecoli

E85 requires a lot more fuel flow, so you need much bigger than normal injectors and a fuel pump(s) to back it.

Would 550's and a 255pump work?

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Maybe if your running stock boost on a stock car.

[Halon]

My mom's, boyfriends, father is a huge E85 fanatic. He's on the news, and in newspapers about it. He runs 100% E85 in his like 96 Dodge Caravan. He's been doing a 50/50 blend for years now, and has recently in the last few months started doing 100%. Only problems he's ever had is on a cold winter day it doesn't always start as well. And he's no car idiot. He used to build up cars in his younger years, and when I popped my hood open, he knew exactly what everything was. I was kinda impressed as he's like 80 sumthin, and he knew what he knew about my motor.

I tend to not follow the norm, and will probably try using this gas in my regular car. And it's not only the fact that it's cheaper, or maybe I get less milage. I guess it's more the thought of less dependancy oil. Call me strange, wierd, or an idiot, but that's my thoughts on it, and from now on will probably be doing a 50/50 blend in my galant.

[Jakey]

How much cheaper is E85 up there? It's $0.40 cheaper per gallon than any other grade down here.

[CDeutsch]

If you want to compare the price of e85 to regular, divide the gas price by 1.33 (according to Car and Driver July 2006).

An example:
Reg $2.99 / 1.33 = 2.25
E85 $2.59

Regular ends up being $.34 cheaper.

The July 2006 Car and Driver had an excellent section on E85. Here's the web version:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-promises.html

The only plus sides to it that I can see is that the E85 industry creates jobs and if you drive a turbo car you can run more boost. Other then that I think it's probably one of the biggest waste of resources of all time. I'm really shocked that no one looked at the numbers before making a federal mandate to boost production.

[Onefast99gsx]

Other than saving the environment, E85 doesn't really do anything for us. I've done all the homework with it. It costs more to run. You have to run like a 9.5 - 9.8 A/F ratio I think it was. There was quite a bit of info on dsmlinks forum. Here in WI were i'm at. I think E85 is maybe a dime less than Reg. 87oct. Pointless. The ethanol plants are just as greedy as the gasoline plants.

So if you're looking to just help save the environment or for better octane, then ok. If you're looking to save $$$, look elsewhere.

[CDeutsch]

Originally Posted by Onefast99gsx

So if you're looking to just help save the environment or for better octane, then ok. If you're looking to save $$$, look elsewhere.

Yep, you're definitely not going to save any money. From the reading I've done it doesn't even help the environment. It reduces carbon monoxide and NOx, but increases hydrocarbon and has little to no effect on reducing global warning at best and some studies show it makes it worse.

It does help automakers meet the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards due to loop rules in the law which is likely the major reason GM makes flex fuel vehicles.

[Jakey]

Originally Posted by Onefast99gsx

The ethanol plants are just as greedy as the gasoline plants.

How so? The vast majority of ethanol plants are owned by investors and the price of ethanol is based on ethanol being a publically traded commodity, just like oil, corn, soybeans, etc.

Originally Posted by CDeutsch

From the reading I've done.....

If the reading you have done comes from Cornell's David Pimental and Berkeley's Ted Patzek, I'd take it with a grain of salt.

[Onefast99gsx]

I guess I'm speaking for one ethanol plant here. I live really close to Stanley, WI. ACE Ethanol is a huge plant there. A shell station in Stanley sell their E85. When I checked on this, earlier this year If I remember, it was only .09 cents less than 87oct. So if it takes more of it to equal the same BTU as gasoline, then it's more in the long run. I say they are greedy because they are keeping the price within an ass hair of regular gas. True, the 15% gas is costing them more but the 85% base shouldn't be that high.

The whole reason Bush wanted an energy plan was to reduce our dependance on foreign oil because the cost of oil was so high. But if E85 isn't saving the customer any more, does it really matter who we're buying from?

[Jakey]

Originally Posted by Onefast99gsx

I say they are greedy because they are keeping the price within an ass hair of regular gas.

Something is definitely fishy about the $0.09 difference as the $0.40 difference I quoted earlier is from an gas station on the same property as an ethanol plant a few miles east of Ames.

Originally Posted by Onefast99gsx

...does it really matter who we're buying from?

Yes, one has to consider how unstable the middle east always is. Someday we may not be able to get oil from over there.

[Onefast99gsx]

If we just had the ability to stop buying all oil from the middle east, oh the price of oil would drop like a rock. Remember what 9-11 did? Gas in MN went down to .96 cents. By the way, the barrel hit a new record price yesterday.

[Thor06]

We arent buying all that much from them anyway. They are only our 3rd highest supplier, Canada and Mexico give us most of our gas. IIRC, we only get something like 17% from the middle east. We watched some documentary on it in Econ during school.

People dont run E85 to be cheaper, they run it to lessen our dependance on foriegn oil and be cleaner on the environment. A few of them would be doing it so they can run much higher boost levels everyday without worrying about knock .

[Gravy]

So has anyone had a long running E-85 mix going? I'm thinking of running a galon or so in the next tank on the new car to see if it hurts any. That small of an amount i don't think will be very noticable or cause massive problems... even in a DSM.

[Shane55113]

i found this great thread from a guy in Europe.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=73061

[tpunx99GSX]

Remember who started it all.... hahahah

[goodhart]

LOL @ some of the old posts in this thread. Running this shit was witchcraft back in 2004-2006!

Originally Posted by LightningGSX

Yeah, it needs to be ran at about a 10:1 A/F ratio.You'll need to swap any rubber seals that come in contact with it, over to Teflon or similar.It will corrode anything made from aluminum, so you may need to swap fuel lines, fuel rail, etc(I'm not sure what everything is made of yet).And finally E85 will conduct electricity(gas does not), so you'd need to shield/ground the fuel pump.The OEMs put a flame arrestor in the filler neck, which would probably be a good thing for us also.Its not as difficult as it sounds, I'll let people know once I figure everything out.

Oh yeah, you'll end up with about 20%-30% less fuel economy and the octane rating is between 95 and 105(depending on season and area, I keep meaning to stop by an E85 pump and check the octane rating around here)

Originally Posted by Kracka

Yeah, my family's farm went under, so the fuck what? Seriously, if you can't hack it in the business then you shouldn't be in it. Nobody in my family pissed and moaned; they realized their time was up, sold most of the equipment and most the land. And did I mention I am a fag? The few remaining fields we own are either being rented out or are on the idle-land revitilization program.

Don't talk about "cleaner burning" either, 90% of the cars on this board are emissions illegal.

About the price...I regularly paid the extra $.10/gal to get the nonoxygenated gasoline if the station I was at offered it and generally noted a slight increase in performance and always a few extra MPG.

Notice underlined part. WTF

Originally Posted by Kracka

No need for apologies my friend. Just so you know, gallon to gallon gasoline makes more power; that is why you see a reduction in fuel economy with E85 and the 10% stuff. I really don't care what you guys buy though, the less gasoline that is purchased the cheaper it will become for me. Aslong as we are all happy with the choices we make I see no problems what so ever.

Originally Posted by santa

Well, I was reading a bit on this thread and noticed everyone thinking its possible to run it in your dsm... good luck!! E85 is obviously 85%ethonol and 15%gas. Your vehical that you run it in has to be FF approved...Flexible Fuel. They run different line, pumps, injector's because of the ethonol content and what it does to standard fuel vehicals. Yes the octane is higher and blah blah blah but what no one stated that it burns a high amount of fermeldihide which is also a dangerous gas.

Kevin

Originally Posted by iceminion

Wait.....so are you running stock internal dsm fuel components and you are seeing no problems? I never believed that bs about it "corroding" aluminum....but you never know...

so are all DSMs just a A/F adjustment away from running e85?

Originally Posted by Gravy

And a time bomb for lines to just disapear on you.

It does eat up the DSM gas lines, but it takes some time. If you want, run the fuel, or about a 1/4 tank to find out. If it is bad you can always pump the tank and just run a little rough for a while. It won't mess up your O2 sensor, they had a few bad batches when it first started coming out that scared everyone away. They had too much water in it, and was fouling up O2 sensors even on vehicles equiped to run it.

So, it had to be ran at a 10:1 or richer AFR, it corroded aluminum, ate rubber, made less power, and Hughes was a fag. Oh how the times have changed

[tpunx99GSX]

So, it had to be ran at a 10:1 or richer AFR, it corroded aluminum, ate rubber, made less power, and Hughes was a fag. Oh how the times have changed

some things haven't. hahahah

[cmspaz]

And apparently non-oxy makes more power? I guess it didn't knock back then? LOL!

[Kracka]

A gallon of gasoline contains more energy than a gallon of ethanol, this is basic information. Ethanol is also very caustic to rubber and aluminum; again this is fact, not opinion.

Oxygenated fuels act as a knock-quench which is why they'll make more power on a turbo car, but this does not change the fact that non-oxy fuels contain more energy.