I'll Probably be banned for this again....

[2zzgtte]

My problem is that I don't want to have to pay for someone else's problems. I think everyone should pay for their own problems.

This will, undoubtedly, put the US in so much MORE debt that we will be out of a world power for minimum of 10 years I'm sure. Now, if China starts selling our T-bills because they assume we cannot pay our bills, we are in a serious situation. "The Situation" cannot even help us out of this one... and we all love "The Situation"!

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by MATCHBX

The biggest thing is that this policy is hitting everyone in the pocketbook no matter who you are. It is also rewarding laziness and punishing those who work to better themselves. Why should I work hard to get the money to afford a very comfortable living only for the government to come and take more taxes out of my pocket to pay for someone else that doesn't want to earn their own way?

And it is against pretty much everything this country was founded on. Freedom of choice will not exist much longer. You will have to do what they want you to whether you like it or not.

The current system in place is hitting everyone's pocketbook anyway. if someone goes into a hospital and rings up a big bill which it happens every time, the bill goes to the taxpayers, in a hidden tax at the end of the year. This is the truth. This will then be eliminated due to everyone being covered. Yes you may have a slight tax increase, BUT there is good reason for that. Say you get cancer, you lose your job a couple months later, Does your cancer immediately stop spreading.... NO. So therefore you still need that care, but hell the company you worked for isnt going to fit your medical bills are they? Wouldn't it be nice if there is a plan in place that prevents you from ever going without insurance. OH YEA, thanks to the Democrats (Republicans had NOTHING to do with this yet they are still covered) you will still be able to get your treatments and be with your family longer.
Not to mention if you choose to go on a government plan, you will likely save enough money to cover the slight increase in taxes. Which very likely the increase will go to the Top 1% of incomes, the sleazy dirt bag that fired you from said job. the guys here that are saying the top 1% are the ones creating job are living in a fantasy world, they only care about money and 90 percent of the time its firing people in the US and shipping jobs overseas.

[Matt D.]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Which very likely the increase will go to the Top 1% of incomes, the sleazy dirt bag that fired you from said job. the guys here that are saying the top 1% are the ones creating job are living in a fantasy world, they only care about money and 90 percent of the time its firing people in the US and shipping jobs overseas.

Yes, because the only way anyone ever gets rich is by lying, cheating and stealing.

[MATCHBX]

You obviously don't know how much your employer is paying for your health insurance. What you pay through them is about a third of what your premiums are to the insurance provider. That's where the insurance companies are getting the money to cover your expenses (after you have met your deductable). It also comes from the premiums of others that don't use their coverage much. Your money goes into a pool along with everyone else that is with your insurer. Then they pay out of those funds whatever your plan says they have to pay.

What this system is saying is that, it doesn't matter if you work or not you'll be covered. But where does the government get the money from for your health coverage if you don't pay in? That's right, other tax payers. So you (a working tax payer) will be paying for everyone else that doesn't. At least with a commercial insurer I know that I am only paying for those that are insured through them (most of which are working and paying for at least part of their premiums).

There is always hard luck cases Tom. Those have programs in place which tax payers pay for already. But now they want to throw 32 million more on this new program and take from the other programs that are already out there. Take a little from Medicare and Medicade to pay for all these others that don't want to work for it. Taking from programs that are already a strain on the system is not the way to do it either.

[2zzgtte]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Say you get cancer, you lose your job a couple months later, Does your cancer immediately stop spreading.... NO. So therefore you still need that care, but hell the company you worked for isnt going to fit your medical bills are they? Wouldn't it be nice if there is a plan in place that prevents you from ever going without insurance. OH YEA, thanks to the Democrats (Republicans had NOTHING to do with this yet they are still covered) you will still be able to get your treatments and be with your family longer.

Like I said, I don't want to pay for that person and all the rest of the low life's that are using my tax dollars and not putting into the pool. I think that if this person NEEDED the money, they would apply and get approved for state run health care, Medicare, and Medicaid. There is no reason to overhaul the worlds greatest health care system because he wants to provide for his "low income families".

This is "sharing the wealth" at its finest. I am sure you are all for socialism and if not communism if you think this is a good idea.

Also, if nationalized health care is such a great idea, why aren't governemt officals covered by it? Why do they get a different health care plan than us? They are no different than us but they get treated differently.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by 2zzgtte

Like I said, I don't want to pay for that person and all the rest of the low life's that are using my tax dollars and not putting into the pool. I think that if this person NEEDED the money, they would apply and get approved for state run health care, Medicare, and Medicaid. There is no reason to overhaul the worlds greatest health care system because he wants to provide for his "low income families".

This is "sharing the wealth" at its finest. I am sure you are all for socialism and if not communism if you think this is a good idea.

Also, if nationalized health care is such a great idea, why aren't governemt officals covered by it? Why do they get a different health care plan than us? They are no different than us but they get treated differently.

LMFAO!!! WORLDS GREATEST???????!?!
First of all. calling our heathcare the worlds greatest is a mass overstatement. Which starts with Pre Existing condition bull shit and ends with 35 million people not being covered.
Secondly Government officials ARE covered under a socialised plan. We pay for their nice ass heathcare plans.
the US is ranked 37th in the World Health Organizations rankings of all countries heathcare systems. Im sure there is much more data than "The WHO is a socialist organization trying to push the socialist agenda." which i know was coming very soon after this comment.
Now would you please take off your rocket boots and come down to earth. KTHXBYE

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by MATCHBX

You obviously don't know how much your employer is paying for your health insurance. What you pay through them is about a third of what your premiums are to the insurance provider. That's where the insurance companies are getting the money to cover your expenses (after you have met your deductable). It also comes from the premiums of others that don't use their coverage much. Your money goes into a pool along with everyone else that is with your insurer. Then they pay out of those funds whatever your plan says they have to pay.

What this system is saying is that, it doesn't matter if you work or not you'll be covered. But where does the government get the money from for your health coverage if you don't pay in? That's right, other tax payers. So you (a working tax payer) will be paying for everyone else that doesn't. At least with a commercial insurer I know that I am only paying for those that are insured through them (most of which are working and paying for at least part of their premiums).

There is always hard luck cases Tom. Those have programs in place which tax payers pay for already. But now they want to throw 32 million more on this new program and take from the other programs that are already out there. Take a little from Medicare and Medicade to pay for all these others that don't want to work for it. Taking from programs that are already a strain on the system is not the way to do it either.

My employer pays 0.00 for me to be covered. Because i am not. So therefore actually yes i do know how much it costs as i am self employed (SubContractor)

[MATCHBX]

That's your problem then if you don't pay for your own health insurance. Not mine and the rest of the tax payers. There are ways of getting health coverage if your employer (you in this case I guess) doesn't offer it. It just costs more than what it would if your employer subsidized part of it (like mine and most everyone elses). Usually an employer kicks up about 1/2 to 2/3rds of what the policy premiums are and you pick up the rest. Some are more generoous, some aren't.

And to say we have the best health care system is not entirely true. But we do have some of the best treatment facilities in the world. Quite a few are right here in MN. But the healthcare system itself it flawed. What they are pushing through IS socialized health care. It's a redistribution of wealth. Those that make more HAVE to take care of those that don't (according to this new bill). It is not the way that it should be handled. I don't have all the answers myself and I'm sure most people on here don't. But we are smart enough to see what they have proposed to be very detrimental to the economy as a whole. They are taking from programs that are struggling and giving that money, along with other new tax money, to something that will just create more strain on the governments budgets.

32 million people will get insurance, but at what cost to the rest of society? The hospitals are already overrun with people going to them for every little sniffle. Now give them free health care and they WILL use it to it fullest. Not what it should be intended for as something to just help them throuogh a hard time. It would be great if this was a perfect society of people that realized that they should not take advantage of things that are offered, but use them for what they are intended for. But there are alot of people that feel that if something is available, they better use everything they can out of it in fear of there not being anything there when they need it. By doing that, they end up using up everything anyways and it runs out for honest people that are really in need.

[mdost03]

My favorite part about this bill is that it doesn't apply to the people who voted it into law. How is that fair?

[FattyBoomBatty]

Originally Posted by 2zzgtte

Like I said, I don't want to pay for that person and all the rest of the low life's that are using my tax dollars and not putting into the pool. I think that if this person NEEDED the money, they would apply and get approved for state run health care, Medicare, and Medicaid. There is no reason to overhaul the worlds greatest health care system because he wants to provide for his "low income families".

This is "sharing the wealth" at its finest. I am sure you are all for socialism and if not communism if you think this is a good idea.

Also, if nationalized health care is such a great idea, why aren't governemt officals covered by it? Why do they get a different health care plan than us? They are no different than us but they get treated differently.

What do you think you are doing when you buy health insurance from a health insurance company? You are paying for other people's problems, and when you get superaids from being such a fox news nut swinger, that little monthly bill you pay could never cover the costs you incur by getting treated at a hospital, so you are using other people's money for your problems.

So you are the worlds biggest hypocrite, congratulations.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

What do you think you are doing when you buy health insurance from a health insurance company? You are paying for other people's problems, and when you get superaids from being such a fox news nut swinger, that little monthly bill you pay could never cover the costs you incur by getting treated at a hospital, so you are using other people's money for your problems.

So you are the worlds biggest hypocrite, congratulations.

Dont forget to mention that now that you have the super aids, under the previous heathcare you would never be able to get coverage under another insurance company. So all of that money you worked so hard for to give to the insurance company is now gone. Dont lose that job or your really fucked. A friend of my right wing idiot of a brother went through this exact thing, He has aids, and is now stuck at the same company with the same crappy plan because if he switches he will no longer be covered by any company.

[Matt D.]

Originally Posted by MATCHBX

And to say we have the best health care system is not entirely true. But we do have some of the best treatment facilities in the world. Quite a few are right here in MN. But the healthcare system itself it flawed. What they are pushing through IS socialized health care. It's a redistribution of wealth. Those that make more HAVE to take care of those that don't (according to this new bill). It is not the way that it should be handled. I don't have all the answers myself and I'm sure most people on here don't. But we are smart enough to see what they have proposed to be very detrimental to the economy as a whole. They are taking from programs that are struggling and giving that money, along with other new tax money, to something that will just create more strain on the governments budgets.

32 million people will get insurance, but at what cost to the rest of society? The hospitals are already overrun with people going to them for every little sniffle. Now give them free health care and they WILL use it to it fullest. Not what it should be intended for as something to just help them throuogh a hard time. It would be great if this was a perfect society of people that realized that they should not take advantage of things that are offered, but use them for what they are intended for. But there are alot of people that feel that if something is available, they better use everything they can out of it in fear of there not being anything there when they need it. By doing that, they end up using up everything anyways and it runs out for honest people that are really in need.

Stop using common sense in this discussion or Tom may just stop posting at all instead of ignoring/dodging your comments all together.

[s1ngletracker]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Dont lose that job or your really fucked.

what you don't realize, sir, is there are MANY WAYS TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM without the government running healthcare. Also, I really like how you just regurgitate the rhetoric given to you by Obama - "Everyone gets health care, its the best thing for all of us, fluffy rainbows and unicorns". For your sake, I really hope that miracle comes true.

Also, justifying these actions by saying "Bush did it, so we're gonna do it too" is about the most backwards argument I've heard. Two wrongs don't make a right, yadda yadda. And you're also assuming that us against the healthcare bill were bush fanboys. In my case, I will give you a firm Heck No! Also, I don't recall Bush touting and bragging about how open he would be... just saying.

What I think most dems fail to realize that the root of this problem is the COST of our healthcare. If you tackle that problem, healthcare will be inherently more attainable by everyone! Also, with a few other fixes, the other problems you mentioned will be solved, none of which require the gov't taking over. Some regulating, absolutely. That's the job of the gov't.

[mdost03]

What people sometimes forget it insurance companies are businesses also. I think of it as they are investing in people. A person with pre-existing conditions could possibly (and most of the time) be a bad investment so that is why people with that situation have a hard time getting insurance. With this new plan, many insurance companies will go bankrupt and out of business as they can't choose their investments anymore. I agree that some reform is in order, as I know some people who can't get insurance in their own name because of pre-existing conditions, but not in the way that the bill was passed. Forcing people to buy health insurance, who don't want/need it, is not right.

Insuring someone with pre-existing conditions is like adding full coverage auto insurance to a car that was just totaled or adding homeowners insurance to a house that burned to the ground after the fire. Just doesn't make sense. Call me a heartless bastard or whatever. It's my opinion. I think there should be a way they can get insurance, obviously, but I can also see why the insurance companies don't want to insure them, and it's their choice. Not anymore though. Another step towards socialism and another step away from the principals our founding fathers fought to defend.

[2zzgtte]

Haha, When I pay for my health insurance, I am paying to a company where EVERYONE ELSE PAYS TOO. This health insurance does not spend my money on 32,000,000 people who sit on welfare and unemployment. That is not including the illegal aliens that everyone knows are here but do not fill out a census. so the government cannot count them.

I am sorry you decided to be a sub-contrator, but that was your own choice. I feel like when I pay for my health insurance and they are dividing it to other people who are paying just like I am, I have no problem with paying a small premium.

I think out health care system is GREAT. Maybe our health insurance system isn't the greatest and needs improvement, but I think, by letting the government take over the whole health care will ruin it and ruin this country. Health insurance would be at it's finest if it were given the opportunity to be at full competition with other state and the government did not intervene. Free market/free competition and NO government intervention will lower premiums, lower health care costs, and with that, you, my good friend, will be able to afford it like us conservatives

[MATCHBX]

Originally Posted by Matt D.

Stop using common sense in this discussion or Tom may just stop posting at all instead of ignoring/dodging your comments all together.

I know. You're right! I should just give up with trying reason and sensibility. I mean come on, an individual be responsible for managing their own health care? Who'da thunk that would be a good idea?!?!?!?


We just went through the "pre-existing condition" thing with my wife when we put her onto my insurance policy at work. She had a lapse in coverage within the past 18 months (it was a few months at the beginning of the 18 months) so they adjusted her starting point that she could receive benefits for a few months from when we started to pay for her. They didn't deny her for a pre-existing. So I'm sure if you lose your job AND have a pre-existing condition, there are ways of getting covered whether it's by your spouses insurance or another company when you start your next job. If you are no longer able to work because of the condition, there are programs for that too already in place. It's not the insurance companies fault you got sick. And, as was stated earlier, they are a business and retain the right to refuse service to an individual. If you can't get it through them, try some other company or program.

[2zzgtte]

Originally Posted by Matt D.

Stop using common sense in this discussion or Tom may just stop posting at all instead of ignoring/dodging your comments all together.

Haha, that is a typical liberal.

Anyone see Bret Biaer interview our terrible president? Bret asked him "who is going to pay for this health care system overhaul?"

Obama says (and he wasted 5 minutes saying nothing) "Well what we are doing here is we are taking a vote. We are voting on health care. The people who vote yes for a a government run health care will be voting yes for government run health care. The people who vote no for the overhaul, will be voting no for government run health care."...

Saying a lot about nothing...

[s1ngletracker]

I personally support the legislation that eliminates the ability to discriminate for pre-existing conditions. I think everyone, sick or healthy, should have the ability to get insurance. There is just no better way to handle it, the gov't needs to get involved. There isn't always 'some other company' that will give you insurance, and people don't always have a spouse or other option. However, i think they should expect and receive high premiums and/or deductible.

[2zzgtte]

I think the government is involved enough with state run healthcare, medicare, and medicaid.

[MATCHBX]

Originally Posted by s1ngletracker

I personally support the legislation that eliminates the ability to discriminate for pre-existing conditions. I think everyone, sick or healthy, should have the ability to get insurance. There is just no better way to handle it, the gov't needs to get involved. There isn't always 'some other company' that will give you insurance, and people don't always have a spouse or other option. However, i think they should expect and receive high premiums and/or deductible.

I agree to a point. But I don't think there needs to be legislation. I think people just have to realize that if they are gonna be more of a risk to the company that they need to pony up a little more cash (like you said) than a healthy person would. Health "insurance" is not a right nor should it be. You have the right to pay for the service. But you don't have a constitutional right to health insurance (well not until now) no matter what.

You may think I'm a bastard for thinking that way, but I'm tired of people trying to get things "just because someone else has it" without having to work for or make sacrifices like the rest do. There will always be a company that will insure you no matter what. You'll just have to pay a huge amount of money to get it. But it is out there. It might not be affordable, but it is there.