92 Laser AWD Motor Problems - Page 2

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 01-24-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettostyle

Car is a 92 so no oil cooler.

It should have an oil cooler, just not one like the 1990s.

Raptor · 01-24-2005

It likely has the EGR and purge can removed. The FPR is probably direct to a manifold port. Nothing that would have anything to do with the problem. Unless I missed it, the question about it turning over hasn't been answered yet. That is the first step to knowing how big an issue you are looking at.

TurboDomestics · 01-24-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

It likely has the EGR and purge can removed. The FPR is probably direct to a manifold port. Nothing that would have anything to do with the problem. Unless I missed it, the question about it turning over hasn't been answered yet. That is the first step to knowing how big an issue you are looking at.

thanks for the info!
When I pulled over on the highway I tried to start it back up but nothing happened, I could hear the starter motor trying, but the car would not turn over. I then popped the hood and noticed that there wasnt any oil in it and decided that it would not be a good idea to try to start it up again.

unreal808 · 01-24-2005

O.K. so it will not turn over, and there is no oil on the dip stick, right? sounds like you have a junk Engine. Pull out and replace.

Raptor · 01-24-2005

Could be locked against a bent valve as well. It would still be worth checking into a little further. Take a 1/2 drive breaker bar and see if the engine will rotate backwards, just a little. That will tell you if it is just hitting a bent valve or not. If it doesn't, the above advice is accurate, swap or rebuild time.

Raptor · 01-24-2005

What the old dude (vicious) mentioned in the other thread is also a concern, even if it is a valve hitting that is keeping it from rotating, without oil, a spun bearing is also a good possiblity.

slowbubblecar · 01-24-2005

The things out aren't needed and are taken out. The solenoids aren't needed because the emissions are taken out and the fuse boxyou are talking about is the ac fuse box which isn't needed either since the ac is removed. BTW, the filter for the hose only causes resistence for the spilling on the ground anyways. There is no spot for it in the intake and all it does when it is connected is coat the ic and piping with oil making them less efficient. The hose is not needed to be put back in. None of our dsm's or our friends dsms have them connected. We all spit it onto the ground.

A//// Guy · 01-25-2005

Well I went and looked at the car. Im not going to list my opinions on the car here... but they would affect my decision on whose fault it is...

Basically I tried turning the crankshaft pulley with a 1/2" drive and the pulley rotated a 1/4 turn guess what didnt turn with it though... The camshafts and the timing belt on it.

So my guess is the t belt slipped, chewed up the bottom of the belt and now when you turn the key, the starter just spins, thus not starting.

I tried turning the engine back the other way until it stopped and the pulley nut loosened, which is Not good, and I was barely putting any pressure on it. So from those things I conclude the engine is probably toast, but I do not know becuase maybe the head survived, and maybe the pistons survived also.

He said that it just quit after a clunk, so that doesnt sound good but we wont find out till someone tears it apart.

Oh and he cant really shift into first or second gear because the shift linkages that bolt to the transmission were not even tight, and there was too much play in the cables to push the gear lever forward enough.

Im not blaming anyone at this moment, I dont know how it was put together or how he drove it so Ill just leave it at that

TurboDomestics · 01-25-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by EclipseTurbo

Well I went and looked at the car. Im not going to list my opinions on the car here... but they would affect my decision on whose fault it is...

Basically I tried turning the crankshaft pulley with a 1/2" drive and the pulley rotated a 1/4 turn guess what didnt turn with it though... The camshafts and the timing belt on it.

So my guess is the t belt slipped, chewed up the bottom of the belt and now when you turn the key, the starter just spins, thus not starting.

I tried turning the engine back the other way until it stopped and the pulley nut loosened, which is Not good, and I was barely putting any pressure on it. So from those things I conclude the engine is probably toast, but I do not know becuase maybe the head survived, and maybe the pistons survived also.

He said that it just quit after a clunk, so that doesnt sound good but we wont find out till someone tears it apart.

Oh and he cant really shift into first or second gear because the shift linkages that bolt to the transmission were not even tight, and there was too much play in the cables to push the gear lever forward enough.

Im not blaming anyone at this moment, I dont know how it was put together or how he drove it so Ill just leave it at that

Thanks again for coming and checking it out!

john · 01-25-2005

The starter is not driven off any belt. For the starter to not engage, the starter gear would have to strip or the flywheel gear would have to strip off. Neither are very likely. If the crank can turn a bit, maybe the block isn't toast. It only moving a minimal about could be due to some bent valves. If that is the case, it would lead me back to the "no oil." The block could have siezed up, the timing belt still had a rotating mass on it, and it could have stripped some teeth off the belt. That would be my guess. Sounds like the block didn't move at all though. It should move in atleast one direction if it is only bent vavles. If it was only bent valves, the starter would still turn the block smashing the valves even more (I have got 2 cars with bad valves and gotten them running). Sounds to me that the block is seised up (no oil), thus the starter cannot turn the siesed engine. If the engine seised while the car was moving, there is pretty much no hope. The weight and momentum of the car is much stronger than the starter. I am guessing the timing belt ripped teeth off the belt as the belt is moving fast and it stopped all of a sudden. Little rubber groves stand no chance. What does everyone else think? That is my diagnosis. Any idea where the oil leaked from? Ryan installed the belt perfectly for me. That is one thing I do not trust myself doing. Him and John L. have done it numerous times for me.

A//// Guy · 01-25-2005

Yea Im puzzled about the loss of oil. Didnt get under the car to check for that as it was in the street. I just dont know about that.

The starter can still spin the engine, I couldnt turn it past a certain point because I didnt have much leverage. BUT the main thing is that the cams didnt rotate, which means the timing belt did slip and now only the crank spins.

I dont think the engine is seized, it turned a litle bit for me, and that is probably becuase it stopped on the valves that are to far down.

You are positive you checked the oil right before he drove it away from the sale? Hey and why did you give me a bad reputation? Someone did between a couple hours ago and now.

slowbubblecar · 01-25-2005

If the crank spins, the block is not shot since it would be seized up. Did the motor turn a 1/4 of a turn with the wrench? Does the starter spin the block?

A//// Guy · 01-25-2005

Yea its a smart idea to keep spinning the starter... We dont know if anything is salvagable, so if we know the t belt is junk now, then why not just take it all apart and then see the damage, versus trying to start it and ruining more shit.

About the block, if the pistons are destroyed then the block is ok... The pistons might be dead if they are hitting the valves. If the starte spins the bottom end then that leads me to assume having no oil was not the problem, becuase why would the t belt slip then?

It doesnt really matter now, I dont think he will fix that car, I advised him to get rid of it becuase it will just be a money pit down the road, and he would rather fix his conquest. Those impulse buys really get you in the end

slowbubblecar · 01-25-2005

The motor could have temporarily seized causing the t belt to over run the pully thus rip the teeth off the belt. Try pouring oil in the car and see if the block turns with the starter and that will tell you if the block is seized up. If the t belt is the only problem, bent valves aren't a huge issue. John has repaired 2 cars with less than 200 in parts including paying ryan or john to put the belt on. The car was assembled fine. A person with timing belt experience put the belt on and set the tension and everything. He has done it a few times for us.

**Kracka** · 01-25-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettostyle

If the t belt is the only problem, bent valves aren't a huge issue.

Ummm, yes it is. Especially if you just bought the car and don't have a whole lot of mechanical knowledge. AT THE VERY LEAST he is looking at a complete timing belt job, a rebuilt head with new valves and guides, and some new pistons. Yikes

A//// Guy · 01-25-2005

Yea thats great but it doesnt help this guy any... How is he supposed to do all that. I wouldnt waste oil or time turning the engine over. He said that the started will sit there and spin, which to me means either the start broke and is just spinning (not likely) or the whole bottom end spins freely and already destroyed the valves therefore if you keep spinning your only hashing up the cylinders and ruing more stuff.

It obviosuly needs to be taken apart so why inflict more damage? I dont get it...

Raptor · 01-26-2005

I am not getting in the middle of this, you guys can throw ideas back and forth all day long as to what is wrong and what it will take to fix. I will say this, troubleshooting the problem is easily done by a decent mechanic. Fixing it depends on what all is found. A block that turns over isn't always good. Spun bearings keep oil from reaching inteded areas etc. If you assume the bottom end is good without checking for proper oil flow, spend the money to fix the head and timing belts etc, you are throwing good money after bad. Do not fix anything until you know the extent of the damage and speculating does no one any good. Bad advice is expensive and poor testing procedures can cause additional damage as Peter mentioned. Get a decent mechanic to look at it if you decide you need it fixed, otherwise the car will never end up reliable.

A//// Guy · 01-26-2005

Yes I agree. That is why I say it needs to be totally overhauled or atleast find out where to oil went first.

tpunx99GSX · 01-26-2005

Has anyone checked for shaftplay in the turbo? When my turbo went out it drained all the oil and spit it out the exhaust, granted there was a huge black cloud behind my car, after i had the turbo replaced the block went, from the brief moment of having little or no oil. Thankfully i had a warrenty to pay for it. But i agree with peter, first find where the oil went, then get a decent mechanic to look at it with a boaroscope etc... see what your in for before you just trash the car.

**1ViciousGSX** · 01-26-2005

It's very simple.

GET UNDER THE CAR AND FIND OUT WHERE THE OIL WENT. PULL THE HEAD. PULL THE OIL PAN.

Stop talking and do something. This isn't that hard to figure out people.