Blown head gasket caused some damaged parts

mike55112 · 06-01-2009

I blew my head gasket about a week and a half ago in the evo. I brought it to metro engine right in arden hills. They saw the surface and asked me where the hell did this get machined before. I had no clue cause I bought the entire long block from ron at rs motors. After the head was dissasembled I got a call from metro and they said I had one bent exhaust valve, WTF I said. I just dynoed it a few days before at map and made crazy good power on the fp white. There was no power loss and the timing was dead on when i removed the timing belt. How the hell could I bend a valve, here comes the crazy part. I got another call from metro today and they said that all my exhaust valves will need to be replaced cause there was wear on all of them. This head had less than 12k on it when the headgasket blew. Also the valve seals that were removed from the head were the incorrect sized ones. They all had unusual wear on them. All in all Im pretty pissed right now cause I thought I would just have to have the head resurfaced and then slap it back on with some L19 headstuds and a oem mls head gasket. Here is the wear on the valve seals

**Kracka** · 06-01-2009

Ouch. Who did Ron have machine and assemble the head?

mike55112 · 06-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

Ouch. Who did Ron have machine and assemble the head?

He told me the other day and then I forgot, to much shit going through my head to remember. I think I may go back to a stock longblock and just drive the evo for my daily and buy a different car to go fast in. Im getting sick of breaking my daily driver all the time. All I know is metro engine said that the surface of the head was machined very poorly and the exhaust valves were touching and wearing.

Matt D. · 06-01-2009

Quality... What has Ron had to say about it?

**Kracka** · 06-01-2009

Going back to a stock longblock (and ECU!!!) would be a great idea from a reliability standpoint. You'll run into far less issues and the car will more than likely run better/smoother while still making nearly as much power. Are you afraid your 2.3 might grenade itself here soon too?

mike55112 · 06-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

Quality... What has Ron had to say about it?

First thing he said was that the tune that jordan did caused the headgasket to go, he told me there must have been to much timing. There was peak timing of 10, im on e-85. Then when I told him I had bent valves,the valve seals were the incorrect ones, and the surface of the head was poorly machined he told me to contact the machine shop that did the head in the first place. I dont know what to think anymore, metro engine said that with me using a cometic head gasket and the poorly machined head surface, there was no doubt what caused the headgasket to go. Im not sure if I even want to keep my engine anymore, I think I may put my 500+awhp goal on hold and just enjoy being able to drive my evo everyday again.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 06-01-2009

The damage might have been done before your dyno at MAP, since the top end of your powerband from 5300RPMs+ looked messed up and down on power like something was wrong with the motor or head. An Evo dyno chart isn't supposed to look like hows your did.

mike55112 · 06-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

The damage might have been done before your dyno at MAP, since the top end of your powerband from 5300RPMs+ looked messed up and down on power like something was wrong with the motor or head. An Evo dyno chart isn't supposed to look like hows your did.

I agree with this, you saw my car at the dyno day on the other setup and that was also really messed up. I know for sure I had a bent valve, but how could I still make that power in the lower end with a bent valve?

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 06-01-2009

I have made in the mid 500s on an Evo with 2 rockers popped off. Fixing it gained a lot up power up top, but it still ran fine, spooled the turbo and made low end power. It depends on how bad the valves are bent too. I made 700whp in my 2G with 8 bent valves from a previous overrev. You have a 2.3l though, that alone should give you a 50whp gain over a 2.0l at the same boost level, so that might be helping.

mike55112 · 06-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

I have made in the mid 500s on an Evo with 2 rockers popped off. Fixing it gained a lot up power up top, but it still ran fine, spooled the turbo and made low end power. It depends on how bad the valves are bent too. I made 700whp in my 2G with 8 bent valves from a previous overrev. You have a 2.3l though, that alone should give you a 50whp gain over a 2.0l at the same boost level, so that might be helping.

I guess I will see what the outcome will be when I figure out what I want to do with this.

**asshanson** · 06-01-2009

Sucks to hear about this, hope the issue is resolved soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike55112

First thing he said was that the tune that jordan did caused the headgasket to go, he told me there must have been to much timing.

Wow, did he have actual knowledge of the tune that Jordan did, or did he just guess? I've not heard many good things about the way RS does business.

**v8klla** · 06-01-2009

I'm very sorry to hear about your issues Mike, you know we're here to help just let me know which route you decide to go. In regards to the tune total ignition timing was at 11 degrees at 7500 rpm's with no knock, I'm fairly certain something else is to blame

Matt D. · 06-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike55112

First thing he said was that the tune that jordan did caused the headgasket to go, he told me there must have been to much timing. There was peak timing of 10, im on e-85. Then when I told him I had bent valves,the valve seals were the incorrect ones, and the surface of the head was poorly machined he told me to contact the machine shop that did the head in the first place.

To be honest, this isn't the first time Ron has blamed something bad like this one someone or something else. Last year there was a thread on MNSC about someone's car getting messed up by RS and Ron not wanting to do anything about it until he posted about it on MNSC, and also this thread of him selling a Type R head which had GSR cams in it.

I would expect Ron to be more proactive when it comes to taking care of his customers. Too many times have I heard and seen him taking steps backward in order to take care of issues that slipped through his fingers and ended up biting him in the ass later on.

There have also been multiple instances of Ron setting up deals for people to buy things from him, then he goes and sells the stuff out from under people because he felt his buddies needed it more. Kracka experienced that first hand.

**scheides** · 06-01-2009

11 degrees at 7500, wtf, that is like nothing. What was it at peak torque?

Still, even if the tune was overly aggressive the poor machined surface of the head and that combover-tech headgasket surely led to the failure. I'm shocked to be honest, I don't know what to say. Ron offers no warranty on this? I'd be flying and stabbing, ninja style.

Seriously sorry to hear this man

**Halon** · 06-01-2009

Sorry to hear.

I'm a believer that if you're going to have a fun car that you mod, to have a 2nd reliable DD. So I'm glad to hear you're thinking about going that route.

Still sucks to hear the hastle you're going through. If you need any help with anything, gimme a shout and if I'm available I'd be glad to help out.

mike55112 · 06-01-2009

Thanks guys, ya I am getting prices right now for all the parts I need and I should have the head back by the end of the week, I just need to wait on getting the L19 studs due to lack of cash. I knew something was up when I started to make less and less power on the 37r setup. All in all I think that once I get my car back up and running it will be done right with a properly machined head and 5 angle valve job with brand new exhaust valves. I will be shooting for 500 tq on map's dyno

**scheides** · 06-01-2009

so, despite the questionable work, can the head be fixed?

mike55112 · 06-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

so, despite the questionable work, can the head be fixed?

Ya the head is fine, I am ordering the exhaust valves tomorrow.

niterydr · 06-02-2009

Ron giving tuning advise? LMAO. Thanks for making my day.

Sucks to hear about the poorly reworked head. At least you now know the root of the problem and can address it properly.

**Kracka** · 06-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by niterydr

at least you now know the root of the problem

RS?

Have you asked Ron for any sort of warranty coverage? As a shop, he should be responsible for the parts he is selling. If its the machine shop's fault, then he should go to them since he is the one who had the work performed. If its assembly error, then he is at fault. My guess, its a combination of both.