ARP Head bolt install help needed.

Onefast99gsx · 04-25-2005

I've been on both tuners and dsmtalk and i see about 3 different methods people use for installing ARP head bolt studs. Can someone please share what method you use.

With the ARP moly lube that comes with, they say 65lbs.

In the torqueing sequence, do you just do the first one at 65lbs, then the 2nd, 65, etc... ? Or do you do do them all at like 40lbs, then 50, then 65lbs?

Also the factory manual says something about a torque/ untorque/ retorque. Does that apply for ARP bolts? Or do you just torque them and leave them.

Thanks for your help.

Pimpin Dsmstyle · 04-25-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onefast99gsx

I've been on both tuners and dsmtalk and i see about 3 different methods people use for installing ARP head bolt studs. Can someone please share what method you use.

With the ARP moly lube that comes with, they say 65lbs.

In the torqueing sequence, do you just do the first one at 65lbs, then the 2nd, 65, etc... ? Or do you do do them all at like 40lbs, then 50, then 65lbs?

Also the factory manual says something about a torque/ untorque/ retorque. Does that apply for ARP bolts? Or do you just torque them and leave them.

Thanks for your help.

the way ive seen it done is go incrementally. There is a specific order in which bolts you do first. I also, am interested in knowing the best way. Probably best off getting mikes advice

Onefast99gsx · 04-25-2005

I have the factory manual that shows the order, it's middle first then outward in a certain pattern. Will be nice if someone chimes in here that's done it several times and knows the best way.

**JET** · 04-25-2005

I got incremental on mine. I go 45, 60, 75. Then I drive it for a while, being nice to it, then retorque to 90. If you are looking for serious HP, then you will want to up the torque a bit. I go with 100 on my silver car, 90 on the daily.

niterydr · 04-25-2005

Most vehicles are torqued to 60-80-90, sequentially, without a torque plate (aka stock motor with headstuds) and using moly lube (dry holes, dry studs, moly on the tops, washers, nuts).
Drive for 100 miles then retorque.
Torque plated/built motors vary with torque spec, usually 100ft. lbs.

**JET** · 04-25-2005

The problem with driving them, then retorquing is that it takes about 10 ft/lbs to break the nut loose. If you torque to 90, drive it and it loosens to 82, then you won't break it loose while retorquing to 90. I was curious about this and tested it out. They all took 8 -10 lbs of force to break loose with lots of ARP lube.

TheBlizzard · 04-25-2005

When I did mine a few weeks ago, I torqued them to 90lbs starting at 40 and working my way up using the pattern listed in the manual and then after a little bit of driving and a few heat cycles I re-torqued them to 100lbs.

CRAIG

Onefast99gsx · 04-25-2005

Thanks guys for the great input on this subject. Your help is appreciated. I hate asking alot of questions but it's questions like these that also help to build good information databases.

AJ · 04-25-2005

http://www.dsmstyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3287

Onefast99gsx · 04-25-2005

Great find! Boy... there seems to be alot of variations out there especially in the torque spec. Everything from 65 to 90/100ft lbs and now locktite. I don't think i will use locktite on them. With that many ft lbs. i don't possibly see how the studs could back themselves out of the hole. The spec sheet that came with said 65ft lbs with moly and 80lbs with 30 weight. I'm gonna gonna go 10 over spec at 75lbs and retorque to about 90 after a few hundred miles of easy driving. More than one person has suggested that.

**JET** · 04-25-2005

Man, you are dead wrong. The studs easily back themselves out. I have had it happen to 2 of my cars and seen it on several others. One done at a professional performance shop. How pissed would you be to blow a head gasket just because you didn't blow out the holes and loc-tite the studs in?

**Goat Blower** · 04-25-2005

Uhh, you're not supposed to loctite ARP's in.

I've had mine off a few times and always re-use the same ARP's. I first put the ARP's in by hand with the head off using regular oil, then put the head on and torque them all to 80 lb/ft with the pattern in all the manuals(inside to out, in an x pattern) then finally to 110 lb/ft. I've only blown one headgasket years ago, and that was just whatever gasket Rick had in there from when he'd melted a piston or something. Never had a problem since.

niterydr · 04-25-2005

I've only done a 'few' headgaskets, never had one blown on me

.
And you don't locktite the studs in, imho.

**JET** · 04-25-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by niterydr

I've only done a 'few' headgaskets, never had one blown on me

.
And you don't locktite the studs in, imho.

Yeah, but were they on upside down?

Just so others understand, I am talking about loc-titing the bottom end of the ARP's into the block, not the nut on. Someone explain to me how this could be a bad thing?

How many people have had the studs come out with the nut? Before you take a head off next time, try retorquing it. You might be surprised! I noticed this problem a long time ago and I have been retorquing heads before pulling them off to see what happens. I have found quite a few bad ones (stud not at the correct torque anymore). The bad ones almost always have the stud come out with the nut too, instead of staying in the block. That is why I think the stud backs out a little bit. I haven't had it happen since I started loc-titing them in place.

Another note, look at the height of all the ARP's after you put them in. They should be the same height. If any are taller, then there is oil or something trapped below it. That needs to be cleaned out.

slowbubblecar · 04-25-2005

we didn't lock tite ours in also. Never heard of doing that into the block. Makes it easier to transfer when the block is bad

john · 04-25-2005

I heard of it, just never used locktite for it. I will have to check the temp rating of it at work tomorrow. If you used it and they still have backed out, seems to me that the locktite has no affect. I always:

Blow the holes out
retap with thread cutting oil
blow them out again
screw studs all the way to the bottom
use ARP lube and torque to 90 lbs

Never blown one. I have had a stud come out while removing the head again but I always clean the holes out and do the process above again whenever I have the head off no matter if they came out or not.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 04-25-2005

I have loctited then in before and did it on my car. I also didn't run them all the way bottomed out on my car, I back them off a little bit. I tried to make sure that mine were all about at the same height. I torqued mine to 90 or 95 ft-lbs and didn't re-torque them. You shouldn't have to re-torque head studs with a Cometic headgasket.

**JET** · 04-25-2005

Thanks Shane, I knew someone else with a lot of experience would chime in. I haven't had any come out once I loc-tited them in. I said that in my post. Just use the blue loc-tite. They will still come out no problem, but they won't work themselves out. Like Shane said, they should not be tightened into the holes like some people do. ARP says finger tight. I go until I just feel them hit bottom with my fingers.

john · 04-26-2005

It is all a matter of opinion on locktiting them. I think we can all agree that it may help but is not needed.

**JET** · 04-26-2005

No, that is the whole point. In some cases it IS needed. Why risk it?