Stock 7 Bolt Power Rating.

[SlowWhite]

So I did some searching just prior to dynoing at elite asking about the potential of a 7 bolt Block, etc.

The fastest 7 bolt DSMR I came up with was Eclipsed20G over on DSMLINK Forums.


He posted 11.6@128mph - FWD So I PM'd him and asked about his set up and what not.


This is his reply, and also a fallow up after NOPI's this past weekend.

He upped his new personal Best to 11.1@129.95mph

-Stock 7bolt Motor
-Stock Intake manifold
-Stock Intake
-T4 Turbo Set up.
-Car Weights just over 2700lbs


Well on his Sencond Pass he descided to try 50 shot of Nitrous on top of BOOST (which was 30psi) And blew his motor - He said the way his run was shaping up before his Motor blew, it would have been a 10 sec pass.

He has no Official Dyno numbers at 30psi - but last year he mentioned he made 439fwhp at 25psi with his set up.

And since Andy Nash has run 129mph Traps and Dyno'd 508whp when he did it I have to imagine that he was somewhere around that numbers.

I asked him about reliability and I'm waiting to hear back. (he'd mentioned something about doing really well in the Points this year so I imagine he must compete in some sort of Circuit. And since the Summer is almost over I'd imagine he's done quite a few pass's at those HP levels with his car.

holy crap that is impressive numbers. NOS always does the darn motors in hmmmm... oh well.. Does he plan to build another 7bolt to replace it or go to 6 bolt? What kind of internals did the 7 bolt have (I assume none since it says stock)?

-Tim

[niterydr]

your motor is still gonna pop fool! :razz2:

[SlowWhite]

Originally posted by timwakefieldjr@Jul 27 2004, 02:32 PM
holy crap that is impressive numbers. NOS always does the darn motors in hmmmm... oh well.. Does he plan to build another 7bolt to replace it or go to 6 bolt? What kind of internals did the 7 bolt have (I assume none since it says stock)?

-Tim

It was a completely stock motor except for:
-HKS 272's
-ARP Head Studs

everything else is as it came from the factor. As for his next motor he's thinking he's going to be going Built 6 bolt.

Originally posted by niterydr@Jul 27 2004, 06:18 PM
your motor is still gonna pop fool! :razz2:

I agree......

Todd Hayashi........one of the 2G DSM front runners back in the day built 3(ea)7-bolt engines in a row each with a "NEW Crank-Walk Fix" and NONE of them made it past the 100mile mark without crank walk.

It will pop!

Its not a question of if....just when.

The only thing you can do is have a preped 6-bolt ready to go in.

With my old set-up I put down 367fwhp on 26psi w/race gas....12.42@116mph............and a week later the crank walked with 113000miles on it.

My old set-up conisted of a stock 7-bolt bottom and top, S20G, 720s, FMIC, SAFC, ACT 2600/6-puck, and Supra Pump.

7-Bolts' can handle the power just the same as a 6-Bolt..........they just don't last that long.

There is no SAFE horsepower level for a 7-Bolt crank.........it will walk @ stock and it will walk @ 450whp.

HP is not a factor in Crankwalk.

(My beliefs only)-Matt

[SlowWhite]

Well I have 120K miles on my motor and all but 22K of it have been over 320whp and abused every day of it's life.

But I'll also mention my motor is a rebuilt 99, assembled by the dealership back in 99. So who knows?

[Enes]

i'd be currious to find out how in spec you are..
have qpr or elite do the crank walk check on it and tell you how much your crank moves

i did mine and i was surprised none the less... we'lll just have to see how much more it will last with the 2600# pp in there..

-E

[SlowWhite]

ya I'll get right on that. :bs:


I'm not worried. If the motor walks I'll just swap to 6bolt.. Although as far as I remember there have been more case's of 6bolts walking here in MN then there have been as far as 7bolts go?

But no-ones made a CW claim in about 2 years. So who knows. - I've run a CM stg 3 clutch since the first week of owning the car and the last 10K or so have been with the ACT2600.

[Enes]

well thing is i was just currious... because mine is still within the specs.. top part of it but still within... i haven't checked it before but i will be checking it every so often... just to keep an eye on it, not a big deal let it crank walk, i already have a 6bolt block and everything necessary for me to do the swap.. just sitting until i get some money i can put toward the engine then i will start ordering parts and building one..

_E

[Raptor]

Actually, remeber that green 2G talon at your house last fall for months Brian? It walked, it is getting a 6bolt now at the shop. I would worry less about it walking than the rods not being able to handle those numbers for long. The difference between 6 and 7 bolt rods is more than a little bit. At minimum, I am sure they will flex under load and potentially keep getting weaker.

Those are good numbers though Brian, glad to hear it is making some respectable power now. Hopefully it will hang together long enough to enjoy it for a while.

[Matt D.]

Originally posted by SlowWhite@Jul 28 2004, 09:23 AM
Although as far as I remember there have been more case's of 6bolts walking here in MN then there have been as far as 7bolts go?

Here we go again... :blah:

[SlowWhite]

Matt - That's Funny :bounce:

Raptor - ya Tom's car was the only 2G I've heard of that's walked around here. (I'm sure there's more I just haven't met any of them)

Anyrate - as far as the Motors potential that's what I've been trying to figure out.

This guys "Eclipsed20G" on dsmlink - has been racing in the Circuit in his area or something from the sounds of it. so I'm guessing he's had to have been racing it at all the events Thus Far.

I asked him the question how many miles his motor's lasted, and how many pass's does he think he's done on the car making those HP figures. I haven't checked back yet to see if he's responded.


But he said he was making 439whp during all of last years racing season so it's at least lasted 1 full season, and I'd have to say majority of this season considering this weekend is Aug 1st. (and it just blew this past weekend when he tried to run a 50shot) - figure he was already trapping at 130mph so a 50shot on 30psi car it's what more like a 75shot, correct?

which if you go by Nash's numbers: 129mph = 508whp. Add 75whp with the nitrious and he was attempting to run somewhere around 580whp on a stock 7 bolt block.

[SlowWhite]

Anyrate I'm not question wether or not a 7 bolt with Crank Walk cause majority will.

The motor in my car already has (previous owner had Metro Mitsu rebuild it in 1999) 22k Miles before I bought it.

My only point in stating HP/Milage is just to show a point that my cars made 320whp for all but 22K miles of it's life.

And I don't think anyone here can say that I've been nice to my car during the time I've owned it. (Yes I do have a racing habbit :3gears: )

But another point I'm trying to make is that there isn't many people out there pushing the limits to see just how far a stock 7 bolt will go.

Most people who descide to go big just build a 6 bolt. - as far as I've read this is the first time I've ever seen a stock 7 bolt be pushed this far.

I have no idea when Brent Descided to go 6 bolt. But if someone see's him, please ask how far he went before it blew or before he built it up.

Cause I know he built a few 7 bolts - but swears he'd never build another one. :headache:


Anyrate I'm not saying I'm going to attempt to Find that "Limit" I'm just looking for "Real World" examples of how far people have gone with 7 bolts, and how long they've lasted.

Cause most people just say "Don't go mcuh above 400-425whp" - Well up until Nash dyno'd I had no idea that a stock 6 bolt could go that far. - And always thought you couldn't go above 450whp with them.

This is just like back in the day you couldn't run more then 17psi on pump gas, or more then 20psi on race gas. - all it takes is someone willing to push the limits.

And that information is what I'm looking for. (I'm definetely not going to be the one trying to be the front runner for this search however)

[Raptor]

You can't really compare Nash's car since the weight is considerably different than a 2G and to figure HP required to run a specific trap speed, weight is the other necessary data point.

Either way, your numbers are much better than in the past so that is great progress. The dyno and the track are the only way to find out what it will be good for with you behind the wheel. And going by what others have run with a similar setup can be misleading just because engines fail for many reasons. We have seen stock 6 bolt rods pushing the limits this year and now your get the fun of pushing 7 bolt rods, it will be interesting to see when and why if they do fail.

[SlowWhite]

I totally agree with you Mike.


I just don't want to be a front runner on trying to find out that stock limit.

I don't think Nash would have gone as far as he has if no-one else had attempted it/proven it's possible.

And I'm in the same boat - I don't want to go any farther unless a few others have proven the motors can handle more.

Believe me I'm happy to have reached the 456whp number. I'm more then satisfied with the 400whp on pump gas. Cause that's all my goal ever was - 400whp on pump.


This new Question is more for Piece of Mind and Curiosity.

I'm hopgeully going to find out this weekend how well I do at the Track. But I'm saying this now. I am NOT going to be trying very hard to push my car.

Breaking tranny's, or anything else for a piece of paper just isn't worth it for me.

I'm just looking for Trap speeds nothing more. Hopefully it'll be over 118mph.

And probaby 2.4 - 60' since that's basically all I seem to ever get wether I'm trying or not. :goodluck: so I'd rather NOT try and NOT Break anything then TRY and have to have my car towed home. (although I'm sure Enes would like that :toast: $$$$$)

[SlowWhite]

Here's His Reply to my questions:

Slow white:
I had 79,9xx on the motor, almost 80K.
I have been racing it for 3 years or so. LOTS of 1/4mile passes on it.
97 motor with cams, 1G TB and that is it.
I have been using a 2600 ACT with street disk for 2 years if not more.
It DID NOT break because of crankwalk. It broke because it was making too much HP.

I have heard 500whp is all that it can take. I am flowing 52+lbs/min of air so I know I am making some good HP. I would say that the car was making around 525whp when it let go if not more.

I think that I have the FASTEST FWD stock bottom end in the nation. Damn that sounds nice. I just wish that I could prove it.

I might be getting another 7-bolt and I will spray that one too, just not until I get it tuned VERY well.

FJO, I am getting this motor for almost nothing, all I have to do is just transfer my head onto it and swap over accessories in all and that is it. SO, it is a little cheaper than getting rods/pistons and so on.... I AM going to do a 6-bolt motor though.

I am just going to put in another 7-bolt and hope it will last me the rest of the year, and get me into the 10's. That is my ultimate goal for now.

Jeff

Oh yeah, I beat out Turbo Trix by .001 sec for the #11 FWD Fastest times

I forgot he's FWD - since they Trap higher then AWD's typically - he's probably close with his HP figures.

[JET]

Actually I don't know of anyone getting real close to Nash's 6 bolt numbers. The closest I have heard is 512 whp or something like that.

[A//// Guy]

Im wondering what the stock 1G motor (completely stock- no 2g pistons and the like) would handle. I know my car will never know haha.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

He said he was flowing 51lb/min, what airflow numbers were you pulling on the dyno? He should have just cranked the boost up a shit load instead of trying to run nitrous. Your probably safer turning your boost up 10psi then trying to run a 50-75shot on an already high boost motor. Nitrous on a boosted motor isn't something to be taken lightly.

[Super Bleeder!!]

tufte and nash made almost exactly the same power, on the same turbo, on almost identical motors.