Water for gas

[bertrenolds5]

I was just informed of a set up that you run you car with mixed water to increase milage and and make you engine run cleaner. Does anyone have any input on this one? http://www.auto-facts.org/water4gas-scam.html

[Matt D.]

It uses electrolysis to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen (You know, H2O) and enters that into the intake. Yeah, it can help, but unless you've ever done electrolysis on your own you will quickly realize how hard and slow it is to get a usable amount of gas from the water.

[bertrenolds5]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydrogen-Generat...QQcmdZViewItem I wonder how often you have to add water and baking soda?And how efficient this setup is?

[Matt D.]

Buy it and let us know how it goes.

While you're at it, I have oceanfront property for sale in North Dakota.

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by Matt D.

Buy it and let us know how it goes.

While you're at it, I have oceanfront property for sale in North Dakota.

How much?

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by Matt D.

Buy it and let us know how it goes.

While you're at it, I have oceanfront property for sale in North Dakota.

It could be an oceanfront property if global warming (haha) melts the polar ice caps (hahaha) and thus flooding the US creating one of the worlds largest pool parties!!!

[merkzu]

I did some math on it, I'm not a chemist but it doesnt look good

I used the Punch HHO High-Output for an example ($300 HHO unit)

The Punch makes 72L of HHO per hour using 20 amps at 12 volts
HHO is 2/3 Hydrogen and 1/3 Oxygen, so 48L of Hydrogen
48L of Hydrogen is 550BTU
20amps at 12v for 1 hour is 240 watt-hours, or 819BTU

So you put in 819BTU and got 550BTU out of it - a waste, but it gets worse

The alternator that supplies the energy to the HHO unit is only 55% efficient, so it actually took 1489BTU from the motor

And then the motor is only 20% efficient, but lets say its a super high compression with a super efficient turbo and throw in some alien tech to make it 50% efficient. In that case it took 2978BTU of fuel to make the 1489BTU the alternator needed.

So in the end you have spend 2978BTU of fuel to make 550BTU of Hydrogen

[xveganxcowboyx]

Pretty sure engines are 30-40% efficient depending on the design. Of course the point is still valid either way. Now if you had some wicked wind generators at home..........

[tpunx99GSX]

http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html Its really too bad he passed away because honestly this would have been the greatest invention of the 21st century.

[merkzu]

wouldn't be suprised if he was killed by investors that got swindled

[tpunx99GSX]

The whole lawsuit was a sham. We all know that cars have problems, we all know that new technology has issues. He had a video of the working model running and driving. The whole lawsuit was because a couple (2) investors didnt want to wait for their money to come back.

Plus he died after a toast with cranberry juice with NATO delegates. His brother was with him. He ran out into the parkinglot and told his brother that he was poisoned.

[bertrenolds5]

Dying right after a toast is really fishy. He probably was killed, think about how much money are economy would lose if we didnt use gas, no stations, no refinerys, no need to transport fuel, ect. Thats alot of people that would be out of work not to mention all the money the gov. makes from taxing gas, it makes sense to kill the guy. F'ing greedy bastards! With a browns gas set up you do save on gas milage, you just use more electricity that the car is generating anyways to do it. Your saving money on gas at the cost using more electricity in your system, makes sense to me. I just wonder how often you have to change/add water and baking soda.
http://wcco.com/local/Project.Energy.fuel.2.357490.html

[merkzu]

But the extra electricity comes from your gasoline, it isn't free - so I dont get where any gas savings would come from

Think of it this way, if you used a large number of HHO units - enough for the engine to run on completely HHO. And then you attached a device to collect all the water from the exhaust, and feed that water back to the HHO unit.

You would be able to run the engine forever on the same water, splitting it up into HHO and then recombining it into water forever.

It sounds an awful lot like a perpetual motion machine

[Matt D.]

Originally Posted by merkzu

It sounds an awful lot like a perpetual motion machine

I have one of those for sale as well.

[NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE]

Originally Posted by xveganxcowboyx

Pretty sure engines are 30-40% efficient depending on the design. Of course the point is still valid either way. Now if you had some wicked wind generators at home..........

Actually engines are about 75%-85% effiecient, N/A, and up to 120% or more efficient with forced induction.

Originally Posted by Matt D.

I have one of those for sale as well.

Does it just get faster and faster every day?!

Don't you also have to have different compression to run off of hydrogen? I'd think you'd have to change your entire setup of your engine (intake, timing, spark, internals? etc) to make it actually work well. I know that BMW is running a bunch of 7 series off of pure hydrogen combustion on the V12 models, but they are only making barely half the HP that the gas combustion models run. So I guess when it says you'll "boost power" and shit, that's a fucking lie.

[tpunx99GSX]

If they made a viable solution yes it would put a couple people out of a job. but it would possibly cause those same people to live a lot longer due to there not being poisons in the air from smog.
Think about this:
Creating an invention to turn a normal car to run on water would not only affect transportation but think about electrical energy. You could therefore take the same hydrogen solution and put it on an electrical generator. Bam no ore electric bills
With saving those two major bills you would have enough money to buy more things (consumerist society) therefore the need for manufacturing jobs would go up and truckers would just have to change from oil and gas to shipping products. Althogh with the amount of products that are oil based the oil truckers will never be fully out of a job along with the oil workers. But they will be able to make more of a profit due to themselves not having to pay for gas.
Overall creating a car to run on water would benefit humanity and out planet, so why stop it.

[merkzu]

Originally Posted by NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE

Actually engines are about 75%-85% effiecient, N/A, and up to 120% or more efficient with forced induction.

I think we have different definitions of efficiency... 100% efficient = can extract all available energy from a source with 0 loss.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Originally Posted by NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE

Actually engines are about 75%-85% effiecient, N/A, and up to 120% or more efficient with forced induction.

I think you are thinking of volumetic efficiency, not gas/fuel/energy efficiency.

[NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE]

Originally Posted by ecoli

I think you are thinking of volumetic efficiency, not gas/fuel/energy efficiency.

DURR!!!

Yep, I guess I was thinking that. And he was right, engines are only about 30-40% efficient, as with energy, since they only use about that much of the total heat produced from combustion.

WOOPSIES!!!

[bertrenolds5]

Originally Posted by merkzu

But the extra electricity comes from your gasoline, it isn't free - so I dont get where any gas savings would come from

Think of it this way, if you used a large number of HHO units - enough for the engine to run on completely HHO. And then you attached a device to collect all the water from the exhaust, and feed that water back to the HHO unit.

You would be able to run the engine forever on the same water, splitting it up into HHO and then recombining it into water forever.

It sounds an awful lot like a perpetual motion machine

I love the idea of perpetual motion! I think it seems possible that we could use energy to create energy to use it once again over and over. Hybrids are sort of doing this, it's just that eventually at some point you run out of energy.

I think the browns gas set up could eventually work, we just need a better way to generate electricity then an altinator, or at least a more efficient altinator that uses less energy to create energy. From what I've read people are imporving"edit, improving" their gas milage so it does work somewhat.

http://www.siennaclub.org/forum/lofi...hp?t17945.html