Compressor Surge

iceminion · 02-23-2009

I "upgraded" to a knockoff BOV

Now, I had a factory new 14B

that worked great, however I was using a knockoff bov and it alwasy "fluttered" couldn't make it go away.

A couple days later the innocent 14B blew up, the smoke my car made was epic!!! (the turbine wheel broke off, and dented my tubular O2 housing)

That turbo is a victim of compressor surge.

I have never liked crushing the 1G bov, so I leave them un-crushed

After reading the following mods, I decided to try this.

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_bov_mod.html

And now I have a ruined e3-16G and a ruined bullseye v-trim.

WTF guys? is any fluttering of a BOV acceptable? or should it be clean "pffffft" after letting off of the throttle?

I don't want to ruin my SC61.

**scheides** · 02-23-2009

That mod works well, I'd say go for it. Why would you leave the crappy ebay one on if it sucked so bad?

When you let off, should be one solid 'woosh' or w/e. Compressor surge is when accellerating and not letting off though, like lugging in 5th around 3000rpms (or wherever boost onset is on your turbo) and the bov/turbo going 'chah-chah-chah-chah' until you let off....or don't and your turbo blows up.

Wait, where the F are the carnage pics? Post them or ban!

iceminion · 02-23-2009

Ok, ok, ill get u the carnage pics when I get home.

Well, the knockoff BOV killed the 14B (very very broken)

I did modify a stock BOV which killed my e3-16g (Lots of in and out shaft play, sill spins)

And the modified bov on the car which has the bullseye has oil coming out the compressor side of the turbo, I assume from the "flutter" effect of the BOV

Note: they didnt always flutter, sometimes there is a huge "woosh" at higher boost levels, but it did flutter at lower boost levels.

I have no idea

Im just going to get an expensive Tial and call it a day.

Maybe I can rebuild the e3-16g

wheelhop · 02-23-2009

WHY?

The 1g bov is much more affordable and after the dodge garage mod, holds just about any pressure you can throw at it. And if your turbos failed after doing this mod, IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR BOV> > >AT ALL!

**Kracka** · 02-23-2009

The stock Evo IX BOV flutters so it can't be too bad for the turbo. Up until recently a lot of factory turbocharged applications didn't even come with BOV/DV's and those turbos had no problem lasting a long time. I'm betting your issue lies somewhere else.

iceminion · 02-23-2009

Then why is it fluttering? why is it compressor surging? rev the engine with hand near (not close) to the turbo and feel the air come out and get sucked back in when the BOV opens...

As far as I understand, if the BOV flutters at all, it is wrong.

**Kracka** · 02-23-2009

Why are you relating compressor surge to BOV flutter?

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 02-23-2009

Real compressor surge comes from the compressor and happens when a turbo makes too much boost at too low of an RPM. It's common to see if on 61mm turbos without anti-surge comp housing when running 20+psi on a 2.0l. They often surge bad when during spool in the 20-30psi range in the mid RPMs.

Kevin 1G Drummer · 02-23-2009

As others have stated, the BOV has nothing to do with the killing of your turbos. I would start by looking into your oiling system. Maybe you have too much/not enough oil pressure at the turbo?

**JET** · 02-24-2009

Yeah, BOv flutter and compressor surge are not related at all. I wouldn't worry about BOV flutter, that just means there isn't enough air coming out to keep it open all the time, it should not hurt anything. I doubt you are getting compressor surge on those little turbos either, the SC61 might, but not the others.

niterydr · 02-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

Real compressor surge comes from the compressor and happens when a turbo makes too much boost at too low of an RPM. It's common to see if on 61mm turbos without anti-surge comp housing when running 20+psi on a 2.0l. They often surge bad when during spool in the 20-30psi range in the mid RPMs.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin_1G_Drummer

As others have stated, the BOV has nothing to do with the killing of your turbos. I would start by looking into your oiling system. Maybe you have too much/not enough oil pressure at the turbo?

and this.

How is your feed line? That E16g failure description sounds like a failed thrust bearing on the turbo.

**scheides** · 02-24-2009

I'm jumping on the oiling bandwagon too, is your oil feed from the head or from the oil filter housing?

If your car is compressor surging, it's generally moderatly violent. Here's a good idea: LET OFF THE GAS PEDAL! obviously just staying in it will just make it keep happening and be harder on everything. Generally you can get around compressor surge (if that is what you are truely talking about) by just letting off the gas a little and accellerating part throttle through the surge rpms and full throttle after that.

Have you considered a 1.8 sohc swap?

iceminion · 02-24-2009

Yeah, the 1.8 is awesome, i really want to do the 1.6 DOCH swap into something, same bore, really short stroke, like 80mm or something. good for 10,000+ rpms

The feed line is completely stock.....where would one begin to troubleshoot?

Would you recommend using the oil feed line from the housing for this?

My SC61 is fed from the oil filter housing....I spose if my thrust bearing goes out on my SC61 then we can rule out oil feed issues. (yes, I have a full 5 qts of oil in there)

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 02-24-2009

Are you feeding it clean oil or possibly dirty pre-filter oil from the oil filter housing?

**scheides** · 02-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceminion

The feed line is completely stock.....where would one begin to troubleshoot?

Check your feed line for blockage, make sure it flows fluid easily.

For that matter, check your turbo drain tube, perhaps its filled with RTV?

iceminion · 02-24-2009

the 14b and the E3-16g had their own feed lines, and their own return lines (one is -8 AN)

However the head could be the issue, I have no way of knowing if there is enough oil coming out of the feed line, is there an easy way? get an oil pressure sender unit and attach it to the turbo feed line?

**scheides** · 02-24-2009

I guess! Otherwise just order a oil housing feed line and seal up the stock location.

desolate · 02-26-2009

I did the same thing and crushed the 1g bov. It held boost like no tomorrow, however during low boost shifts it would flutter crazily. I ended up building very exessive shaft play quickly, blowing 3 turbos, and almost blew up my scm61 (it has some in/out play now and my assumptions are from the back lash flow from the fluttering).

Since then I've changed to a twin bov setup, back to the stock 1g bov (unmodded) and a greddy. The turbo I have in now which is an ebay 16g knock off has lasted 4 months and 4,000 miles going strong. The shaft play is exactly the same as when I put the turbo on.

imo any bov flutter = your turbo is going bye bye soon.

Kevin 1G Drummer · 02-27-2009

Why are you running two BOV's? And I've been running a Tial on my car for 2 and a half years now and anything under 11 psi it flutters. My turbo is still just fine.

**4seasons69** · 02-27-2009

I've been running a cheap turbo xs for 8 months and under 10psi it flutters and my turbo is fine and has very little shaft play.