Confederate flag, yes or no?

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

What other issues was it about?

Like I said, read a history book or two.

[jeremy1375]

The south's equivalent of the Declaration of Independence was called the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union. It explains why they wanted to leave the Union. Have you read it? I have and its all about how they believe they have the right to keep slaves.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

[jeremy1375]

I've done some more reading. It says this in Mississippi's declaration "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world".

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

The Confederacy was about states rights in the same way that Mein Kampf was a book about a man with a vision. Both statements are true, yet they both disregard critical parts of the stories.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

Right. I remember how all of those other organizations fought for slavery. lol

So you're saying it's ok to be race based as long as you're not promoting slavery,... really, that's what you're gonna go with?

And while you're checking up on your history lesson, look into how many of the slave owners were black. And not all blacks were slaves.

[SlowWhite]

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/...es/greeley.htm

And also the civil war started because the north was taxing the south, but instead of using those funds in the south they were using it to build the north. The south didnt think that was right.

Also Lincoln didnt originally make slaves free he even sayed hed leave it alone if the south continued to pay taxes.
It wasnt till the north started loosing the war and recruitement was at almost a stand still that he decided to then free slaves if they served time in the military.
Its funny actually the movie "the patriot" actually put this notion in the movie but I never even noticed it before.

[SlowWhite]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eman...n_Proclamation

Hell it was 2yrs after the war started the emancipation proclamation was given.

And it didnt even include all the slaves in the us. Only the 3 million in the states that succeeded not the 1 million in the north.

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

So you're saying it's ok to be race based as long as you're not promoting slavery,... really, that's what you're gonna go with?

And while you're checking up on your history lesson, look into how many of the slave owners were black. And not all blacks were slaves.

What does it matter if there were black slave owners and that not all blacks were slaves? Whites have always been the majority in this country. There is a history in this country of some of the majority treating minorities as subhuman and unequal. In a majority rules kind of society, it's bound to happen. None of the race based groups you are mentioning except the Black Panthers are based any premise of marginalizing anyone else to achieve their goals.

You'll get to have your white race group whenever the white race starts to get treated as a minority.

[Halon]

Apparently you've never lived in Yuma, lolz.

[jeremy1375]

Never lived in Yuma, but was stationed at Camp Pendleton in Cali for a few years. Plenty of Mexican folks there. Could get your windshield replaced for $50 just north of the border.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

What does it matter if there were black slave owners and that not all blacks were slaves? Whites have always been the majority in this country. There is a history in this country of some of the majority treating minorities as subhuman and unequal. In a majority rules kind of society, it's bound to happen. None of the race based groups you are mentioning except the Black Panthers are based any premise of marginalizing anyone else to achieve their goals.

You'll get to have your white race group whenever the white race starts to get treated as a minority.

Makes no sense at all ^^^ ,........ And you are right when you say "history" because for the past FIVE (5) decades everybody has had the same access to an education, medical care, etc. and then some. Those who apply themselves have always succeeded, black, white, brown, doesn't matter.

Do you not realize that by just having most of those groups makes blacks out to be unequal and unable to stand on their own? Keep making minorities out to be victims and they'll never get ahead. And maybe that's the point in all of it,......

You want everybody treated equal, stop playing favorites based on race. Racism knows no color restrictions. Blacks can be, and are in most cases, more racist than whites because many have been taught at home, church, school that all white people are evil which is just not the case.

[jeremy1375]

Anyone can be racist, I understand that.

Statistically, blacks are much poorer than whites in this country and the gap widens. If you believe all men are created equal as our founding fathers did, what is your explanation for that?

[SlowWhite]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

Anyone can be racist, I understand that.

Statistically, blacks are much poorer than whites in this country and the gap widens. If you believe all men are created equal as our founding fathers did, what is your explanation for that?

This doesnt apply to all but most and this isnt blacks only around here whites in my option are more fucked up then the rest - poor parenting(this is key), poor role models, lack of discipline, lack of respect for everything(generalizing) especially laws, lack of effort, cry babies thinking they deserve handouts, and the biggest one of all a government that treats them as infants, by basically providing every need for free.

In my state you actually get paid more collecting unemployment then you do minimim wage. on average here the person collecting unemployment and medicare is equipment to a person making $16/hr.

You get free food, free housing(includes electric/gas), free medical, free cell phones, free education (2yrs free tech college classes) Gas money, just off the top of my head.

We did a layoff a few years back and moved our business to Mexico where I was flown down for a month to teach them how to do my job.
We had the option to get moved into other departments and 50% of the employees here took the layoff, when i asked people why , response was they got paid more doing so and a lot wantes to go back to school for free. And the sad part is they actually teach people the loop holes here so that they can live off the government.
Most churches here offer classes to there congregation

[SlowWhite]

And granted the stuff thr government provides isn't the best looking, but around here where almost everyone lives in a trailer home no one cares. Its completely accepted vs frowned apon.

I can think of only one trailer home park in minnesota I ever saw in the 11yrs I lived there. And that was edge of apple valley and Rosemont.

I probably pass 15 parks on my way to work and there is countless trailers not in parks on my way to work. Amd most are actually occupied by whites in this area

[polishmafia]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

Whites have always been the majority in this country.

Not anymore. Maybe the majority though history, but I'm alive now. I don't have any control over any ancestors, or yours, or anyone elses. If I even dare call myself "white", I get shit on. Fuck you political correctness and equal opportunity.

I am pretty certain that if all ethnic groups would just stop bringing up history and racism to our children, stop drawing these stupid lines, they could live in a world where no racism exists. But thanks to the KKK, NAACP, Black Panthers, all of the other "my race is the best and worst because of *", that isn't a world we live in.

[polishmafia]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

Anyone can be racist, I understand that.

Statistically, blacks are much poorer than whites in this country and the gap widens. If you believe all men are created equal as our founding fathers did, what is your explanation for that?

Statistically, blacks are much poorer than whites because of their upbringing. Put anyone in a situation where survival is greater than education.

All men and women (you forgot those X chromosomes) are created equal. We all come out the same way.

These young minds are influenced by their parents, their society, etc. Like I said, remove the influence from parents and those higher up the family tree... All this stupid shit goes away.

[A//// Guy]

Just throwing this in here for kicks and giggles. Good ol misunderstanding. http://www.kare11.com/story/news/201...ding/30181171/

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by polishmafia

Not anymore. Maybe the majority though history, but I'm alive now. I don't have any control over any ancestors, or yours, or anyone elses. If I even dare call myself "white", I get shit on. Fuck you political correctness and equal opportunity.

I am pretty certain that if all ethnic groups would just stop bringing up history and racism to our children, stop drawing these stupid lines, they could live in a world where no racism exists. But thanks to the KKK, NAACP, Black Panthers, all of the other "my race is the best and worst because of *", that isn't a world we live in.

The thing is, we are born into our place in the world BECAUSE of history. Because of our ancestors who worked through the industrial revolution, we live in a world with automobile, skyscrapers, the internet, and all other kinds of amazing shit.

The bad comes with the good. We reap the rewards for our ancestors hard work and innovations, but we must also pay the price for their fuck ups. I can't see how things could be any other way. Racism doesn't just go away. It's learned through the generations. It will hopefully be unlearned through generations, nothing happens overnight.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._United_States

White Americans are the racial majority, with a 77.7% share of the U.S. population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to 17.1% of the population, making up the largest minority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population.

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by polishmafia

Statistically, blacks are much poorer than whites because of their upbringing. Put anyone in a situation where survival is greater than education.

All men and women (you forgot those X chromosomes) are created equal. We all come out the same way.

These young minds are influenced by their parents, their society, etc. Like I said, remove the influence from parents and those higher up the family tree... All this stupid shit goes away.

Whites put blacks at a disadvantage - Through centuries of discrimination. Generational wealth doesn't exist for blacks like it does for whites. A person is much more likely to complete a college degree if their parents did. If parents aren't very well educated, their kids are likely to follow in their paths.

How do you remove the influence from the parents? Like I mentioned above. We are products of our history.

I believe doing things like removing the Confederate flag send at least some small message to blacks who feel like whites are keeping them down - that things that concern them matter.

[Halon]

It's 2015. Nobody alive anymore was a slave from the 1800's. I wasn't alive back then, but I can only imagine it's a night and day difference from them until now. Millionaires, Billionaires, CEO's, etc come in all colors now. The majority voted in a black president, twice.

Forgive but don't forget, that's how you prevent repeating past mistakes, and focus on just moving forward. I agree with Vicious's comment that the only way to truly move forward with equality is to truly treat all as being created equal. Countering racism from previous generations long ago, with an opposite form of racism today, just doesn't seem like a big picture approach if the end goal is equality.

When I lived in Yuma for 3 years, I was definitely a minority for those 3 years. It has to be like 90% Mexican there. Didn't really matter to me. When I walked into a restaurant, I just busted out some high school grade Spanish and ordered up some Carne Asada and life was good! I remember having dinner with my g/f's family, her parents didn't speak English at all. We all just spoke Spanish, ate burritos, and I understood maybe 1% of it all, was all good. My year in Japan, several months in Spain and Korea, same deal. Just go with the flow, treat everyone equally and with respect, things seem to work out. Run into a few bad apples along the way, whatever that'll always be the case, they don't represent the majority so just move on.

[jeremy1375]

^ What's your opinion on the Confederate flag? Is removing it considered reverse racism in your opinion?