Evo X upgrades - Page 51

311evo · 06-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

^Good attitude. Beyond blame at this point, just need to solve the problem and move forward.

Eagerly awaiting word from FB on this.

+1. I'd like to see what this thing can do when everything is working together smoothly.

**mlomker** · 06-22-2010

Full Blown called. The pump housing was installed the 'wrong' way.

It turns out that FB designs their hangers such that the fuel inlets/outlets point forward toward the engine bay. This would place the slits in the cup to the back of the car. That actually could be enough to keep fuel from escaping as readily since during braking or turning the fuel would hit the solid parts of the cup.

All perfectly logical, other than the fact that the stock hanger isn't oriented that way and the hanger came with no instructions. lol.

I'm going to go pick up the car after work...I'm thinking I'll take it for the evening and find a big parking lot to perform some manuevers in to test it out.

**Kracka** · 06-22-2010

They should have machined an arrow or some sort of indication as to how it should be oriented in the car. It seriously came with no instructions?

**mlomker** · 06-22-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

It seriously came with no instructions?

None. I had FB ship the hanger direct to BlaqOPs, who did the plumbing and (poorly done) wiring for me. He said it was just a bare hanger, some hose, and fittings and that's it.

I emailed LJ for info on the suction line setup since it made no sense to me and that's when he sent me a photo with one mocked up (that photo is a billion pages back in this thread). Nobody ever mentioned reorienting the hanger. I've had that thing in & out over a dozen times (and Shawn, simulatedwood, did it the first few times) and why wouldn't we assume that it was oriented the same as stock?

Not that I care at this point. I'll be ecstatic if this is the fix. I wanna run BIR on Monday!

**Murlo26** · 06-22-2010

I would say this is good news! It was an easy fix...better than hearing, "Sorry, we don't know why it isn't working, ours works fine on our car, better luck next time!"

Danny said the car would knock flash on sweeping lefts so just start out by turning left on anything at speed, if it knocks, that could be bad, otherwise you should be good to go.

Good news man! Now throw those damn ID's in there and let er buck already!

Edit: forgot about the intake, lol.

**mlomker** · 06-22-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

Danny said the car would knock flash on sweeping lefts so just start out by turning left on anything at speed, if it knocks, that could be bad, otherwise you should be good to go.

I didn't see anything during regular freeway driving. Guess I'll just have to beat her a little and see if she likes it.

Matt D. · 06-22-2010

Too bad cloverleafs go to the right.

**Murlo26** · 06-22-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

Too bad cloverleafs go to the right.

My thoughts exactly!

**mlomker** · 06-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

My thoughts exactly!

The roundabout in Eagan goes to the left! Reorienting the hanger didn't help, at least for how I want to use the car (auto-x and HPDE).

It doesn't cost much for them to block off the slits in the hanger cup as a test so I suppose that's worth trying. I may just have to go to a surge tank setup. MDR makes a decent looking kit but it looks like FB is equipped to fab things like that.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-e...-tank-kit.html

--
Took the car for a drive this morning and here's what I discovered:

1) I drove the car in figure-8 patterns and in circles in a parking lot and it seemed fine while it was performing the manuever, at a constant throttle position. When I stoped and paused for a moment (while waiting to exit the parking lot), I saw the knockCEL indicator flash.

2) I drove around the roundabout in Eagan 3-4 times (a left turn) and when I exited I applied a little bit of throttle, similar to what you'd do at the track. The car misfired and the check engine light came back on (I had cleared it before leaving the house).

**Murlo26** · 06-23-2010

Surge tank time....

**Kracka** · 06-23-2010

I am very glad I have no intentions to touch or modify my fuel system at all. It really seems to be one of the big weak points of the X.

**mlomker** · 06-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

I am very glad I have no intentions to touch or modify my fuel system at all. It really seems to be one of the big weak points of the X.

The stock hanger can have the issue on road courses but I've never heard of anyone running into the left-turn starvation problem on the street.

My car seems to run fine on a sedate drive but if I take a scheides-style run to Surly then I have the problems.

**scheides** · 06-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

When I stoped and paused for a moment (while waiting to exit the parking lot), I saw the knockCEL indicator flash.

This doesn't quite make sense, you saw the CEL? Or when you were accelerating to leave the lot? THe KnockCEL will NOT flash unless you are over a certain load point, 120 is the default IIRC (this would be equivelant of part throttle acceleration with maybe 5psi or so of boost).

I would consider taking the Full Blown kit out and putting in a stock hanger with a single pump or maybe putting in murlo's stock-hanger double pump hanger and see what happens. The latter seems the easiest to me (bribe him with beer)!

**Murlo26** · 06-23-2010

I told him to do that long ago

Ps. I love beer...but I love rum more !

Regardless, since you are doing road racing, if I were you I would probably see if FB can work up a surge tank double pump setup using parts you already have. The Double pump in tank is great for straight line, but road racing, you will still need to keep you tank above 1/2 to be sure.

**Kracka** · 06-23-2010

Maybe it's time to stop messing with all these unproven setups that in theory are great, but still remain mostly untested. Why not run an AMS fuel setup that's worked well for their high-power road race cars? It's time to get this thing on the road! Use next winter for more prototype testing.

**Murlo26** · 06-23-2010

AMS doesn't sell their surge tank setup for the X's like the one Gates is using, which is lame.

They just have an inline pump setup which be enough for E85 might not be.

**mlomker** · 06-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

This doesn't quite make sense, you saw the CEL?

Don't pretend to understand that. I paused for a moment at the exit for the parking lot and then applied some gas in 1st gear to pull into the street and I saw it blinking. The car was either not rolling yet or just starting to roll when I saw it.

Quote:

The latter seems the easiest to me (bribe him with beer)!

He has a progressive double pump (BlaqOPs modified hanger). It's not stock. I'd have to either block off his progressive pump or reinstall the progressive controller on my car. No matter what it'd be a few hours of work and I'd have to have Shane re-check the fueling afterward or I couldn't be sure that it was safe.

I'm getting the feeling that there isn't a long-term solution that doesn't involve a surge tank, whether it gets filled up by the FB or stock hanger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

AMS doesn't sell their surge tank setup for the X's like the one Gates is using, which is lame.

That's the problem, just like for our intake...they are custom and not for sale. Relatively few companies sell surge tank setups because they're tough to make street legal for crash reasons (the law seems to consider the trunk to be the 'passenger compartment').

Their inline 270lph setup would work but it's only good for the power level that I'm currently running (420-430@DB). You get past a single pump and the complexity gets pretty ugly.

**Murlo26** · 06-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

Don't pretend to understand that. I paused for a moment at the exit for the parking lot and then applied some gas in 1st gear to pull into the street and I saw it blinking. The car was either not rolling yet or just starting to roll when I saw it.

He has a progressive double pump (BlaqOPs modified hanger). It's not stock. I'd have to either block off his progressive pump or reinstall the progressive controller on my car. No matter what it'd be a few hours of work and I'd have to have Shane re-check the fueling afterward or I couldn't be sure that it was safe.

I'm getting the feeling that there isn't a long-term solution that doesn't involve a surge tank, whether it gets filled up by the FB or stock hanger.

Well the shitty part is there is no reason to use two pumps to fill a surge tank, haha.

So maybe take one of those pumps off the double pumper and use it on the surge tank and buy yet another 255 and put two in parallel after the surge tank! Oh boy, this could get ugly

Better yet...trade your full blown hangar for a stock one with stock pump. Then get a surge tank setup with a 255 on the surge tank and a boost a pump on the 255, that is win!

That is what I have been thinking of doing eventually if I start to have problems.

**mlomker** · 06-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

That is what I have been thinking of doing eventually if I start to have problems.

Well, I'm glad I'm saving you a lot of money. :P This has been suckage for me.

The reason I might keep the FB hanger in the setup is because it has nice AN fittings vs the stocker being plastic. It'd be a single pump in that hanger and then you'd need an external pump (or two) off the surge tank. I'm not sure if a dual external there or a single big pump, like the Fuel Labs models would be the best choice.

http://www.fullblownmotorsports.net/...products_id/94

**Kracka** · 06-23-2010

You guys ever talk to Goofygrin? He is a local down here who was running a E85 X with a surgetank.