Possibly the most retarded anti-gun ad I've ever seen...

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

You have free speech just like i do. I am not taking offense, im going on the offense. Which liberals, it seems, constantly back down from. Im just tired of Conservatards thinking they know everything yet are some of the most closed minded people around. but because they are constantly yelling "Wah wah wah" that somehow makes their point valid. Im sorry but your point is stupid, and please go back to the hole you crawled out of.

I don't remember typing "Wah wah wah", but if it makes you feel better believing that I did and it helps you sleep better at night please stick with it.

Because here we have yet another example of how liberals when faced with an opinion they don't like will tell somebody their point is stupid and they should go back to the hole they crawled out of. Nice rebuttal to my points, as you used clear and concise evidence based facts to take me down, NOT!

[AwdGSX13]

Originally Posted by polishmafia

This thread is a perfect example of an exercise in futility.

Why do you guys even waste your time babbling on back and forth?

I think this is any conversation that has to do with politics lol

[tehehodi]

When do I get my free gun from the goberment?

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by tehehodi

When do I get my free gun from the goberment?

Just fill out your Mexican Cartel gang member papers and Team Obama/Holder will ship it out pronto.

[JET]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

You have free speech just like i do. I am not taking offense, im going on the offense. Which liberals, it seems, constantly back down from. Im just tired of Conservatards thinking they know everything yet are some of the most closed minded people around. but because they are constantly yelling "Wah wah wah" that somehow makes their point valid. Im sorry but your point is stupid, and please go back to the hole you crawled out of.

A liberal is saying the conservatives run around yelling "wah, wah, wah"?? I see that 95% of the time from liberals and no I am not a conservative. I lean that way on monetary concerns but more liberal on many social aspects.

All government is just F'd up though. They are just doing what they are paid to do by the companies with the biggest checkbook.

[Goat Blower]

Originally Posted by JET

They are just doing what they are paid to do by the companies with the biggest checkbook.

Don't forget organizations like the unions, which are by far the largest political contributors.

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by AwdGSX13

It is hard for me to think of one that thing that Obama has done well since taking office ( other than the 8k i received for buying a house ) but I can admit I'm a bit biased regarding that.

Everything else he has done has been surrounded by controversy and somethings potentially illegal ( immigration reform ). Which makes you wonder since we have so many people that are still below poverty, actual current tax paying Americans. But he is willing to take just under a billion in tax payer money to help fund that.

But back on topic, all of the ideas coming from liberal democrats to curb gun violence is either misinformed or the information is just plain untrue. Maybe using libtards is wrong, but in the end they have not proposed anything that actually makes me think they are using their brain. I know republicans or (inbred christian nutjobs) have come with ideas that help with pre-screening people purchasing firearms and perhaps training before being able to buy a gun. But simply banning certain weapons will not fix the problem.

I appreciate that fact that you served Jeremy, but I wouldn't be so quick to take offence.

As far as what Obama has done, I would argue that the ACA was a huge deal. Obviously it's still a divisive issue, but I'm still a supporter of it.

When it comes to guns, that's another complicated issue. With urban centers becoming more and more densely populated, the likelihood that a mass shooting can take out more people increases. I'm not saying banning certain weapons will fix the problem, but a line does exist on what weapons are allowed. I've heard very little dissent about the automatic weapons ban. When is the last time you heard about a mass shooting where a machine gun was used? Would you want the ban on full autos lifted? I can't say that I would.

As far as the offense goes, I just don't feel very welcome in a place when I hear shit like that. It promotes taking and defending sides, not discussion.

[AwdGSX13]

Automatic weapons are not "illegal", you just need a special permit to own. They do make it pretty time consuming and you really open yourself up to the government if you do get approved for a automatic weapons permit, but anyone can apply and deal with the bs.

[1ViciousGSX]

The problem with gun control on any level is that it only burdens and punishes the law abiding citizen. Criminals don't follow laws.

You want a safer neighborhood or a safer nation, promote the value of life.

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by AwdGSX13

Automatic weapons are not "illegal", you just need a special permit to own. They do make it pretty time consuming and you really open yourself up to the government if you do get approved for a automatic weapons permit, but anyone can apply and deal with the bs.

Correct, the point I am trying to make is they are so tightly regulated and expensive now that vast majority of gun owners will never own one. Due to extreme regulations on them, it's extremely unlikely a child, irrational person, or even criminal will ever get their hands on one. They are effectively out of the hands of irresponsible/careless owners.

I certainly don't want to see "assault" weapons be made illegal. The problem I see is that they're inexpensive, and getting even cheaper. They are accessible to just about everyone. Most are accurate enough to hit a man sized target at 500 yards with the proper training. They are sensationalized in movies and video games and, with a full magazine, a person can fire off 30 rounds before a reload. I don't understand why background check requirement bills are receiving almost no conservative support?

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/iss.../vote_2013.php

[AwdGSX13]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

Correct, the point I am trying to make is they are so tightly regulated and expensive now that vast majority of gun owners will never own one. Due to extreme regulations on them, it's extremely unlikely a child, irrational person, or even criminal will ever get their hands on one. They are effectively out of the hands of irresponsible/careless owners.

I certainly don't want to see "assault" weapons be made illegal. The problem I see is that they're inexpensive, and getting even cheaper. They are accessible to just about everyone. Most are accurate enough to hit a man sized target at 500 yards with the proper training. They are sensationalized in movies and video games and, with a full magazine, a person can fire off 30 rounds before a reload. I don't understand why background check requirement bills are receiving almost no conservative support?

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/iss.../vote_2013.php

I can definitely agree that background checks need to be more detailed. Also I believe that anyone who is looking to buy a firearm should have to receive their firearm safety first. If you need it to hunt, then you should need it to buy as well.

The magazine issue is moot point, if you can't carry 30rd magazines then someone would just carry 10 / 10rd magazines. Sure they would have to reload more but with most weapons it can be done in a short amount of time.

I also think that even the sale of firearms from person to person should be regulated more. Because any Joe blow can go buy one from a buddy.

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

The problem with gun control on any level is that it only burdens and punishes the law abiding citizen. Criminals don't follow laws.

You want a safer neighborhood or a safer nation, promote the value of life.

A person is required to be trained how to drive before driving a vehicle. No training is required to own and shoot a gun. The training that is required to carry a weapon that can be potentially used to take the life of another human being is much less than is required to drive a car. From a public safety perspective, how does that make any sense.

As a society, we share common space. All commercial guns begin their life cycle being produced by law abiding citizens. Yet somehow, some law abiding citizens allow the guns to be put in the hands of criminals either through negligence or deliberately.

What does a world look like where there is no gun control whatsoever?

As far as promoting the value of life, do you mean that from a religious point of view or another way?

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by AwdGSX13

I can definitely agree that background checks need to be more detailed. Also I believe that anyone who is looking to buy a firearm should have to receive their firearm safety first. If you need it to hunt, then you should need it to buy as well.

The magazine issue is moot point, if you can't carry 30rd magazines then someone would just carry 10 / 10rd magazines. Sure they would have to reload more but with most weapons it can be done in a short amount of time.

I also think that even the sale of firearms from person to person should be regulated more. Because any Joe blow can go buy one from a buddy.

I thought the same as you about the magazine size when I first heard about it. I'm not necessarily pro-smaller magazine, but I found some merit in the idea after thinking about it.

The reason I think there is something to the idea is because of the adrenaline factor. I still get a bit of a rush when firing a gun. I have to imagine that a person who is on an insane shooting spree is going to have shitloads of adrenaline coursing through their veins. Adrenaline makes precision movements hard. Unless a person has prepared and has the movement of removing and inserting a magazine down by rote, I would bet they are going to fumble it and leave a possible opening for kill or capture.

Other than that, we're pretty much on the same page.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

A person is required to be trained how to drive before driving a vehicle. No training is required to own and shoot a gun. The training that is required to carry a weapon that can be potentially used to take the life of another human being is much less than is required to drive a car. From a public safety perspective, how does that make any sense.

As a society, we share common space. All commercial guns begin their life cycle being produced by law abiding citizens. Yet somehow, some law abiding citizens allow the guns to be put in the hands of criminals either through negligence or deliberately.

What does a world look like where there is no gun control whatsoever?

As far as promoting the value of life, do you mean that from a religious point of view or another way?

That's a straw-man argument. Even as well trained as we would like to think driver's are, more people die annually from cars than they do guns, by a long shot of 4 to 1 (no pun intended). And cars are much more indepth to operate than simple guns.

Top 7 Causes of Death
Since 1 Jan, 2013
Cause.....................Annually.....To Date
Tobacco:................529,000.....1,074,090
Medical Errors:.........195,000........395,931
Alcohol Abuse:.........107,400........218,067
Vehicle Accidents:.....42,000..........85,277
Suicide:...................29,350..........59,593
Drug Abuse:.............25,500..........51,776
Firearm Homicide...10,828..........21,985
http://seggleston.com/1/wp-content/custom/ds_index.php

Real time for 2015:
Abortion:................................34800
Heart Disease:.........................19011
Cancer:..................................18378
Tobacco:................................11154
Obesity:...................................9783
Medical Errors:...........................6692
Stroke:.....................................4109
Lower Respiratory Disease:...........4555
Accident (unintentional):..............4029
Hospital Associated Infection:.......3155
Alcohol:....................................3187
Diabetes:..................................2353
Alzheimer's Disease:....................2708
Influenza/Pneumonia:....................171
5Kidney Failure:..........................1363
Blood Infection:..........................1066
Suicide:....................................1259
Drunk Driving:............................1077
Unintentional Poisoning:...............1012
All Drug Abuse:............................797
Homicide:...................................535
Prescription Drug Overdose:...........478
Murder by gun:..........................366
Texting while Driving:....................191
Pedestrian:.................................159
Drowning:...................................125
Fire Related:...............................112
Malnutrition:................................88
Domestic Violence:.......................47
Smoking in Bed:...........................25
Falling out of Bed:........................18
Killed by Falling Tree:.....................4
Struck by Lightning:......................3
Mass Shooting:............................0
Spontaneous Combustion:..............0
http://www.romans322.com/daily-death...statistics.php

More info:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/u...age-and-gender

A world without gun control is what we have now for the most part. Statically its actually pretty good. At least not as bad as those with an agenda would like you to think.
Here's something to think about, imagine a world without police.

Not a religious issue and not bringing religion into it. I mean the value of life that revolves around right and wrong and your right to take a life. If children were brought up to see the value of life in general, there might be less murders.

[polishmafia]

Democrats = Dicks
Republicans = Dicks
And those that don't know where they fit in between = Dicks

And... FIGHT!

[AJ]

If you replaced the "anti-gun" with "thread" in the title for this it would be more accurate.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by AJ

If you replaced the "anti-gun" with "thread" in the title for this it would be more accurate.

LoL

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

That's a straw-man argument. Even as well trained as we would like to think driver's are, more people die annually from cars than they do guns, by a long shot of 4 to 1 (no pun intended). And cars are much more indepth to operate than simple guns.
....

A world without gun control is what we have now for the most part. Statically its actually pretty good. At least not as bad as those with an agenda would like you to think.
Here's something to think about, imagine a world without police.

Not a religious issue and not bringing religion into it. I mean the value of life that revolves around right and wrong and your right to take a life. If children were brought up to see the value of life in general, there might be less murders.

Finally found some time to think about this and sit down to reply.

While guns are far simpler mechanically as well as operationally than cars, I would argue that they are just as complex when it comes to safety and awareness. In Minnesota, a three hour course is all that’s needed training wise to get a carry permit. It seems unrealistic to me to prepare any person to carry a gun and truly understand the situation they’re potentially preparing to deal with in that short of a time let alone be aware of how the situation might affect their own abilities once if they find themselves in that position. If the conservative argument is such that the best crime prevention is an armed public, why is there not rigorous training and testing required to ensure a civilian is trained well enough to actually do the deed if it comes to that?

I don't have data to back this up, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb here by saying that the number of guns being operated per day on an annual basis is several orders of magnitude smaller than the number of vehicles being operated. The 4-1 argument will likely look much different if considered based on deaths by a percentage of use.

Using the top 7 causes of death you provided, firearm homicide is the only event where another human being is actively violating another person’s right to exist without being injured and/or killed (I saw abortion in the other data set and I’m not going to touch that one.) Everything else is bad self care, negligence, or bad luck. It’s a different type of event to be actively killed by another person versus not. It’s more traumatic to survivors at the least.

I guess I just think more can be done to prevent things like school shootings and the like. If you leave your gun accessible and your child picks it up and shoots up the school, there should be some significant jail time for not properly locking your shit up and securing it. I would assume the authors of the 2nd amendment implied personal responsibility.


Not sure where you're coming from with a world without police. I'm not for that and not sure who is.

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by polishmafia

Democrats = Dicks
Republicans = Dicks
And those that don't know where they fit in between = Dicks

And... FIGHT!

That's too many dicks without any pussies for me. I'm out.

[AJ]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

If you leave your gun accessible and your child picks it up and shoots up the school, there should be some significant jail time for not properly locking your shit up and securing it.

There is. The owners/parents are held responsible in a lot of these case. Now every situation is going to be slightly different, but it's not something people turn a blind eye to. I've very protective of what I keep in my house, how I keep it in my house, and how it needs to be ready in case of self defense use. If i'm not I only have myself to blame and my actions shouldn't take away the rights of others who are following the laws.

My wife and I both have our carry permits. I agree that the standard class as we took it isn't enough. Thought others would say they shouldn't have to take a class to protect themselves and I agree with that as well. The reason I don't think the class is enough is someone doesn't really have to pay attention to the class to get it. Go through it, hit a target, pay $, done. When we did it I asked for a single class with only my wife and I and made sure he brought in some intro to handgun aspects for my wife. She needs to feel comfortable and secure with any gun she choose to have. It just so happens that is an full size M&P .45 with a wonderful Apex trigger kit.

In the end I wish the money spent to fight gun control was spent on disarming criminals and helping those with mental conflicts that lead them to improper use.