Legal advice wanted on recent car purchase

C3L1CA · 11-11-2010

Well I saw this Eclipse for sale on craigslist and it seemed like a pretty good deal.

I was very interested in it because it had pretty good parts on it, I could use the Auto trans for my '95. I figured I'd put in a manual tranny in this car and have a solid daily driver and I'd be able to sell my other daily driver. I told him that I wanted the car but only had $1,300 cash though and would need to get a small loan. He said don't worry about getting a loan and said I could make payments on it as he has done that before for other cars he has sold.

I thought cool, so we wrote up a small contract and we considered the car sold.

Get the car home and rip into it and found out the thing didn't have dsmlink.

The ecu wasn't bolted down, had 2 out of 4 screws holding on the cover of the ecu, stock chip was in it, and there was no dsmlink cable to be found in the car. Super pissed I called the guy up and he didn't answer.

I then sent him a letter say he can either refund me $563 (cost of DSMLink from MAP with socketing as the socketing jobs looks kind of shotty) or give me my $1,300 back and come get your car.

He calls me today saying that DSMLink was in the car when he sold it but for some reason he is willing to give me $250 back. I then told him that if he wont either take the car back or give me a full refund for a new DSMLink I am going to look into things that I can do to get my money back. He called 10 minutes later saying he talked to his lawyer and that since the contract that we both signed says sold "As Is" that I am screwed and he is really doing me a favor but would now be willing to give me $300 back.

Any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated!

munchgsx · 11-11-2010

Just ask for the title. That'll save you $400 unless you already payed him.

**cmspaz** · 11-11-2010

From a legal standpoint, since you signed a piece of paper that stated "as is" and not "including parts as listed", my guess would be that you're pretty much F'd.

tpunx99GSX · 11-11-2010

Im thinking you wont be able to do much on that as it does say as is, I would say take the $300. Unfortunately the words AS IS are the main thing.

C3L1CA · 11-11-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchgsx

Just ask for the title. That'll save you $400 unless you already payed him.

I bought it on the 28th of October, so just a few weeks ago and have only gave him $1,300 so far. I am not giving him another penny until the two of us figure out some sort of deal.

Fran05 · 11-11-2010

Shoulda popped that 2step. Easiest way to check for dsmlink.

tpunx99GSX · 11-11-2010

tpunx99GSX · 11-11-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fran05

Shoulda popped that 2step. Easiest way to check for dsmlink.

Should have asked for the box and cable. 2step isnt automatically on.

C3L1CA · 11-11-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmspaz

From a legal standpoint, since you signed a piece of paper that stated "as is" and not "including parts as listed", my guess would be that you're pretty much F'd.

I thought about saying something along the lines of having something like "including parts as listed" but that was after the fact as I was driving home. I guess I've always had such good luck with buying things from DSM people that I never thought things would be such a pain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Im thinking you wont be able to do much on that as it does say as is, I would say take the $300. Unfortunately the words AS IS are the main thing.

I might just take the $300 and get it running to sell it and see if I can make a profit.

So far it looks like I'm kinda of sh!t out of luck.

C3L1CA · 11-11-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Should have asked for the box and cable. 2step isnt automatically on.

Kind of kicking myself for not. I guess live and learn.

I also couldn't have test the "2 step" as the car did not run. Both of the two rod bearings I looked at are spun. Also 2 of the flex plate bolts were completely backed out, and the rest were only finger tight or half backed out.

Speedfreak · 11-11-2010

The "as is" thing is only part of the legal issue here. He also advertised what he was selling and what it included. By selling you something other then what was stated is fraudulent(afaik). You still have a leg to stand on.

I'd get him to agree to $400 and both cut your losses.

C3L1CA · 11-11-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedfreak

The "as is" thing is only part of the legal issue here. He also advertised what he was selling and what it included. By selling you something other then what was stated is fraudulent(afaik). You still have a leg to stand on.

I'd get him to agree to $400 and both cut your losses.

I'm going to see if I can get a free consultation with a lawyer and see if they think it is worth it to go after the guy. I did offer him that I would take $450 and he said that was way too much. Being stressed about stupid stuff isn't worth it to me.

Thanks for all the advice so far guys! I really do appreciate hearing 3rd party perspectives on the problem!

dsmdion · 11-11-2010

The "AS IS" part may get you. Even if Link is stated in the ad he's prolly just gonna say that the car is in fact "as is" and that you came and looked at the car, and that you bought it anyway. Pretty deceitful really. He was obviously hoping you wouldnt notice when you looked it over, and luckily for him you didnt. Its also funny how fast he contacted a lawyer, he obviously had his ass covered on this one, and he's just gonna claim you shouldnt have bought it. What a fucking douche

95talonracer · 11-11-2010

All cars over 100k are as is and did the letter you write up get notarized? If not then it may be good for you as it wont stand as much as if it were notarized.

Alpha D · 11-11-2010

Dont give him a DIME MORE! IF he takes you to court more power to him. . .the worst that can happen is theyll tell you to pay up which is fine. Take the 300 dollars then disappear of the MAP! (Im not a crook like that but I HATE SEEING CAR DEALS GO OF THE DEEP END!) In case you have to pay for court fees use the 300 dollars he is offering you. Contact one of those free lawyer people see what they think. I did that with my car situation and i could of most likely gotten a forced refund, but decided to keep it and figure the problems out.

xveganxcowboyx · 11-12-2010

He was selling a package deal. As-is refers to condition, not existence. I can't advertise selling a set of 12 plates and then give you a box with 9 plates in it and say "as is." If he had given you the Link as advertised and you later found it to be non-functional that would be a different story. As it stands, he took your money for a product he did not provide. That is theft.

**mlomker** · 11-12-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by xveganxcowboyx

As-is refers to condition, not existence.

Exactly right. In legal terms the description of what is being sold is called an express warranty. The term As Is only disclaims implied warranties, such as more damage to the drivetrain than the seller realizes is there.

It's not like it'd be cost-effective to take him to court over this so either way it'll have to be negotiated.

**Kracka** · 11-12-2010

Buyer beware; never trust a seller, especially regarding a modded car. Sounds to me like you failed to do your due diligence.

C3L1CA · 11-12-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsmdion

The "AS IS" part may get you. Even if Link is stated in the ad he's prolly just gonna say that the car is in fact "as is" and that you came and looked at the car, and that you bought it anyway. Pretty deceitful really. He was obviously hoping you wouldnt notice when you looked it over, and luckily for him you didnt. Its also funny how fast he contacted a lawyer, he obviously had his ass covered on this one, and he's just gonna claim you shouldnt have bought it. What a fucking douche

I don't really know if he contacted his lawyer or if he just called a buddy for a second opinion and was trying to scare me. That or he knows he is lying and wants to really cover his ass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95talonracer

All cars over 100k are as is and did the letter you write up get notarized? If not then it may be good for you as it wont stand as much as if it were notarized.

The letter we wrote up did not get notarized. My gf was there and so was his wife, don't know if that makes a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xveganxcowboyx

He was selling a package deal. As-is refers to condition, not existence. I can't advertise selling a set of 12 plates and then give you a box with 9 plates in it and say "as is." If he had given you the Link as advertised and you later found it to be non-functional that would be a different story. As it stands, he took your money for a product he did not provide. That is theft.

That's how I thought of it, just very nicely put. Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

Exactly right. In legal terms the description of what is being sold is called an express warranty. The term As Is only disclaims implied warranties, such as more damage to the drivetrain than the seller realizes is there.

It's not like it'd be cost-effective to take him to court over this so either way it'll have to be negotiated.

I agree on the cost-effectiveness part. I'm hoping he will come up a little in price and we can just settle it that way. Having to take time off work and all the other stuff that would come with going to court makes it seem alomst not worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

Buyer beware; never trust a seller, especially regarding a modded car. Sounds to me like you failed to do your due diligence.

Lesson learned.

simulatedwood · 11-12-2010

As they say on peoples court "As-is" sale is "as is" at the time of sale. Its the buyers responsibility as stated by others here to make sure everything is as delivered. Did you specifically ask if the dsmlink was included at the time of purchase? An ad from craigslist is not a delivery sheet, seller's "knowingly or not" will put stuff in ads that is and is not true, it all part of the advertising game. What I cannot believe is the sellar would even agree to to take a partial payment on a car then let the buyer take it. Huge risk on the sellers part, crazy stupid.. IMHO. Take the refund and move on, you learned an important lesson in private party sales.