March for health care! - Page 4

john · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

Think again. Compare a toll road to (paid for by tolls rather than taxes so if anything its actually costing you less to drive on) to lets say Hwy 169 for example. One on smooth and generally free-flowing, the other is rough and backs up quite often; I'll let you figure out which is which. Our road system here is a nightmare compared to a lot of other areas of the country and MNDOT always seems to be one step behind when it comes to updates/expansions. Enough said.

So in MN you want to try and compare HWY 169 with 2 lanes to 394 with 3 lanes, one being a carpool/toll?? I think that is a pretty bad comparison. I don't have a problem with the roads. Obviously Mndot has to prioritize so they will fix a busy road like HWY 169 before a road out in St. Cloud. Simple cost/benefit approach.

I would like to argue in this thread in regards to the health care battle but like most of you, I do not know enough about it where I should be spouting my opinion off as fact. Just because Obama is pushing for this doesn't mean it is going to happen. Last I checked the president couldn't write and sign legislation into law. I have a feeling that most of the people who argue politics on here have no idea what is going on. They hear their parents or friends talk down on the plan (or other issues) and think that it is the best side of the story. MN is a democratic state, Obama won the election, deal with it.

1QUICK4 · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

MN is a democratic state, Obama won the election, deal with it.

Nobody except you and Tom are talking about Obama. The topic is about Socialist health care, not Obama.

He is not the 1st to try and push this kind of stuff through the system. I just dont want the Guberment (any party or branch) having thier hands in my health. Period

NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE · 09-10-2009

Anyone watch his speech tonight? It was too much for one guy at work to watch, it was funny. But seriously, check out these rockin' quotes!

Obama also defended his proposal for government-run public health insurance as an option for consumers, saying it would force private insurers to lower costs. However, he called the provision one alternative for increasing competition for health insurance and signaled his openness to alternatives.

He's not dead set like a stampede for a full government option. He's not some close minded.....................

republican, well a god damn majority of em'

"Let me be clear... it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance," "No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up."

Wow, that'd really shut down insurance companies that don't even have the 3-5% of uninsured Americans that would be able to afford a public option.

Oh fuck that 5% means Socialism wins!!!

"I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can't find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice."

There is nothing bad about this, I don't care what you think? Why can't the most bad-ass fucking balling out of control rich nation afford to insure it's own people? Yes, other nation's ways of doing may be flawed, but they do it.

Regardless of what anyone's views are, in the end, this whole ridiculous "health care reform war of ultimate strife" is to just plainly lower health care costs and get rid of all the absolute nonsense in the system now. Things can always be improved upon, like Evo's. Think of it as adding a 3" exhaust or a huge fuckin' 600mm turbo.

And if anyone thinks the government's hands are gonna be all up in yo insurance business, the fucking insurance company is already in yo business. They tell you who to see, when to see them, where they are, or whatever they do (I have never had insurance so I don't know the personal experiences with it) and what's so bad about the government saying that? It's kinda like switching companies.

I do however 100% disagree with Obama wanting it law that you have health insurance, like having car insurance in most states. Obviously taxes will increase to support a public option, but if my taxes go up then fuck having it be law that I buy a plan or whatever when I'm already paying in with taxes. That's like it'd be illegal to be alive almost.

1QUICK4 · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE

"Let me be clear... it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance," "No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up."

How is not going to effect me? Who is going to pay for it?

There are already programs in place for the uninsured.

NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE · 09-10-2009

Hmmmmm... a public option? Hmmmmmmm..... taxes! Unfortuantely...

That's be my best guess, but I think a lot of people know and believe that there is so much waste and fraud and other b.s. in the system that the savings from that could come from there alone to fund it, that is for the 3-5% of people that would go for it.

But that's just a scenario for a public option. It's not like a public option is what's gonna happen here, who the hell knows what's gonna happen. Shit, God himself is probably crackin' a beer and eating cheetos and scratchin' his head.

1QUICK4 · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE

And if anyone thinks the government's hands are gonna be all up in yo insurance business, the fucking insurance company is already in yo business. They tell you who to see, when to see them, where they are, or whatever they do (I have never had insurance so I don't know the personal experiences with it) and what's so bad about the government saying that?

I have never had a problem going where I want and going when I wanted to. If anybody else on here has well then they can chime in If you have no experience in a feild it's best not to make assumptions.

As far as what's so bad about the government stepping in. At least all my insurance company's out of the many I've gone through over the years have run a pretty well organized buisness. They stick within thier budget and are very efficient at what they do. Something I've never seen the Government do in my lifetime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE

Hmmmmm... a public option? Hmmmmmmm..... taxes! Unfortuantely...

Then I guess it does effect me

NOT THE BLUE LAMPSHADE · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1QUICK4

I have never had a problem going where I want and going when I wanted to. If anybody else on here has well then they can chime in If you have no experience in a feild it's best not to make assumptions.

As far as what's so bad about the government stepping in. At least all my insurance company's out of the many I've gone through over the years have run a pretty well organized buisness. They stick within thier budget and are very efficient at what they do. Something I've never seen the Government do in my lifetime.

So then what's to just automatically say that you will have a problem with them right away or something? Like Obama said, he's not going to force you to choose. If you like your care, and your price and whatever it is that appeals to you and want to keep it, then keep it. And I'm not making assumptions, that's not my thing. I've seen things first had from friends dealing with shit like going to see all these damn specialists and doctor after doctor only to have the original insurance company say, "Oh yea, that doctor we sent you to, who sent you to a bunch of other doctors, aren't in our network, and they want to be compensated. Here's a bill for a fuckload of money." A guy at work here now owes over $3000 dollars as of today to all these doctors for the original doctors mistake, and this was over a month ago, and nothing has become of it. Either it must be really busy for the insurance company to take care of or that's how it is, regardless of a hiccup.

And I think that this whole health care cost thing has gotten so serious, that it will have to be taken 100% seriously. I mean shit, IT'S GOTTEN THE MOST ATTENTION OF ANYTHING IN MY LIFETIME! Except for Monica Lewinski and 9/11. People are going on the most ignorant shouting rants, calling Obama a Nazi, accosting people in town-hall meetings, shit, yelling "YOU LIE!!!", like senator Joe Wilson (R, SC). This is something that can and will bankrupt our nation, as it already is and has countless numbers of people already. So maybe it's time the government stepped it up a notch is a better way of thinking, rather than just saying "Oh well based on all the other flops and hilarious foul ups, they can't get anything right."

Matt D. · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1QUICK4

There are already programs in place for the uninsured.

Exactly. I pointed that out in one of my examples, I've personally dealt with it and it works.

john · 09-10-2009

^^ Well good for you. I bought a house when I was ~19 and going to college. Since I didn't live at home anymore I was not covered under our familiy insurance. Coverage was too expensive so I couldn't afford any. My old job didn't offer it so I was without for over 3 years. If there was a reasonable option I would have gotten it.

The problem I see with inusurance is that most people are suckered into buying cadillac policies when they do not need them. I was talking to a partner at my work and he was saying how expensive it was due to this reason. I never get sick (haven't missed a day of school or work since HS and I probably wasn't sick) and only need insurance to cover disasters. At our firm, health partners does not offer such a policy. I probably wouldn't have health insurance if it wasn't paid 100% by my work.

1QUICK4 - inusurance companies do try and force you to go to certain doctors, they call it being in the network. If you want to go to a specialist, you typically have to get a referral by someone in the network to get out. An example of this was when a doctor at Park Nicolate had to refer my mom to the Mayo Clinic.

john · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1QUICK4

Nobody except you and Tom are talking about Obama. The topic is about Socialist health care, not Obama.

Go back to page 1, hit Ctrl + F and search for Obama. First you will notice that the first post by Joesushi mentions him, then you will see it on posts by:

Matt D
Tom
A/// Guy
Fattyboombatty
Halon

That is just PAGE 1. You can go through the other pages if you like but it is not just Tom and I talking about Obama.

A//// Guy · 09-10-2009

I only posted about Obama because Tom brought him in here saying we are all AntiObama... which despite the fact I am, I focused on healthcare. May want to read the posts before you just start throwing my name in there.

polishmafia · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

I have a feeling that most of the people who argue politics on here have no idea what is going on. They hear their parents or friends talk down on the plan (or other issues) and think that it is the best side of the story.

This is not a personal attack on you, but what you said is complete idiotic. The majority of the people on this site are adults who are smart enough to do their own research and make rational decisions based on facts.

I could just as easily turn your statement back onto you and say that you have only heard what your parents or friends have said to you.

So don't assume or "have feelings" that the majority of Style members are uneducated peons who spit rhetorical bullshit that they heard from others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

I bought a house when I was ~19 and going to college. Since I didn't live at home anymore I was not covered under our familiy insurance. Coverage was too expensive so I couldn't afford any.

You had enough income to afford a house, and had income to pay for all of the utilities and upkeep that comes with owning a house. But you couldn't afford health insurance?

Maybe your priorities were not aligned with what you should have done in the situation... I'm not sure, and I'm not assuming. Could you have rented an apartment and had money to pay for health insurance? Again, I don't know and I'm not assuming anything.

Quote:

inusurance companies do try and force you to go to certain doctors, they call it being in the network. If you want to go to a specialist, you typically have to get a referral by someone in the network to get out. An example of this was when a doctor at Park Nicolate had to refer my mom to the Mayo Clinic.

Yes, most insurance companies prefer you go to a doctor that is in network. A doctor that is contracted with the insurance company so that rates for services are already set. Insurance companies do this to keep costs DOWN.

On any insurance plan, you can go to any doctor you want, but if you choose to go to a doctor that is outside of the network, that is your choice and you have to pay for it.

The days of the HMO are over for the most part. The majority of health insurance plans these days are set up so that you do not need to be referred to a specialist. Why? Because why should the consumer or health insurance companies pay two claims when only one visit is needed? Again, it tries to keep costs down. If a specialist is needed that is not within the network, then yes, you need a referral to, again, keep the total cost to the consumer down.

But your one example of your Mom being referred to a specialist is far more convicing than the 10 million claims my company processes each month.

So really... whos the one talking about this subject from what they've heard from their parents? :P

1QUICK4 · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

Go back to page 1, hit Ctrl + F and search for Obama. First you will notice that the first post by Joesushi mentions him, then you will see it on posts by:

Matt D
Tom
A/// Guy
Fattyboombatty
Halon

If you would've read the posts you will see there is only one post talking even remotely bad about Obama and that was Matt D. So get over this he's your President blah blah blah. Nobody is arguing that. We are arguing healthcare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

^^ Well good for you. I bought a house when I was ~19 and going to college. Since I didn't live at home anymore I was not covered under our familiy insurance. Coverage was too expensive so I couldn't afford any. My old job didn't offer it so I was without for over 3 years. If there was a reasonable option I would have gotten it.

If healthcare was that important to you you could've adjusted your life to have it. Don't make it out that it wasn't available to you because it was. It seems you'd just rather spend your money on a nice house, your education, and your toys. There were and are many affordable plans out there.

Hell, I lived on my own from the time I was 16 on and I've always had healthcare. Sure sometimes it is a higher deductable plan but guess what. I don't go to the doctor for bullshit like most people. It will save your ass when you need a $190K operation or procedure. When the bill is $190K, $5K deductable is very resonable

There is coverage out there right now for under $100 a month.

**Halon** · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

Go back to page 1, hit Ctrl + F and search for Obama. First you will notice that the first post by Joesushi mentions him, then you will see it on posts by:

Matt D
Tom
A/// Guy
Fattyboombatty
Halon

That is just PAGE 1. You can go through the other pages if you like but it is not just Tom and I talking about Obama.

C'mon now, that message is entirely misleading.

I see my name on that list. But my use of "Obama" was asking why he was being brought up by others in this topic, when the debate isn't about him, it's about healthcare.

That's ridiculous...

Captian James F. Awesome · 09-10-2009

FWIW, for the guys talking about the state of Minnesota provided healthcare, it should be noted that we have some unusually generous benefits utilizing one of the only working healthcare co-ops in the nation (Healthpartners). Some look to it as a model of what the nation could adopt as part of it's policy.

**Halon** · 09-10-2009

And I also question the reasoning of purchasing a house at the age of 19, and having the means to do so and afford all your "toys", but not having enough for healthcare. Like was said, if healthcare is that important to you, then how was that not accounted for in your own personal budget before purchasing a house as a teenager?

At the same time though, I don't know your personal situation and there may be a very good reason for it all.

I wonder though, do you feel bad for those who complain that are on welfare, no insurance, yet drive around in nice Cadillac's? Or do you feel that maybe if they're in that kind of situation, maybe they should consider re-prioritizing their budget?

Matt D. · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

^^ Well good for you. I bought a house when I was ~19 and going to college.

Beat a dead horse much? Vipers, buying a house when you're 19, get over yourself. My point was that the system worked for me when I needed it and it was extremely affordable.

**Kracka** · 09-10-2009

Instead of talking about how much stuff you bought and all your fun toys, maybe you should instead tell us how you've help benefit society and spread the wealth rather than how you've profited off it. After all, that is what socialism, which you seem to love, is all about. Funny how hypocritical people become when you start talking about their personal wealth rather than just the citizens and taxpayers as a whole.

Forced Fed · 09-10-2009

This should be a post about how we should be marching AGAINST Obama's health care, not for it.

311evo · 09-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forced Fed

This should be a post about how we should be marching AGAINST Obama's health care, not for it.

I think it pretty much is right now.

Remember how much shit was talked about bush by the Liberals (and some conservatives)?

That was after years of being in office, people don't just sit back and take whatever shit their government throws at them because "He's our president and theres nothing we can do about it."

Everyone in here is just stating what they believe in, and where our government should stick their healthcare plan. But I suppose that makes us "Bible thumping inbred racist conservatives" heh?