Re-torquing ARP headstuds - Page 2

**scheides** · 05-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

Heres how you do it... Buy some L19s from me, remove the head, put in a new HG without copper spray, and torque to spec.

ok, did we discuss copper/no copper last time I did this? What's the advantage of going no copper? And can you remind me what we discussed for torque? This is a 7-bolt, I think I did 87 or 88 lb-ft last time.

Shane, I think you hit the nail on the head, but I'd like to take 30 mins and try this re-torquing first, just for giggles.

Archertsi · 05-18-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

Heres how you do it... Buy some L19s from me, remove the head, put in a new HG without copper spray, and torque to spec.

I second that!

Also, how old is your coolant cap? I had a friend with a 2g that would push the coolant into the over flow at 24psi with an fp green. We swapped to L19's and fel pro head gasket and still, it would push coolant.

Installed a coolant cap from Nissan 300zx, problem solved. I think the coolant was being heated and expanded so quickly that it was making pressure and pushing the old, worn-out cap open.

Just a thought . . .

4g63tcrazy · 05-12-2009

..free of charge.

**scheides** · 05-12-2009

I can't believe I'm looking at these L19 headstuds for my car, what a joke. Standard arps should be just fine?!?! Does Arp make L19's as well, or is A1 the only company?

http://www.maperformance.com/a1-tech...-bolt-evo.html

4g63tcrazy · 05-12-2009

Read from like the 3rd page on of the link I posted. Also when you do the copper spray you need to do it VERY evenly and you can easily over spray in some area's making the surface uneven.

**scheides** · 05-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4g63tcrazy

Read from like the 3rd page on of the link I posted. Also when you do the copper spray you need to do it VERY evenly and you can easily over spray in some area's making the surface uneven.

Haven't gotten that far yet, but on page 2, there's some interesting info.

It says that if arps are used and torqued just beyond the recommended torque (which I think is fairly common practice) and THEN the head lifts for any reason, the ARP studs are not to be used again, as they can become stretched and integrity compromised.

Has anyone locally experienced this? If this is in fact true, it could certainly be why my HG is going out again after only 10k miles. The head lifted last fall and when I replaced the headgasket I re-used the same set of ARPs.

Are the L19's really $250? Someone pinch me....can my mere 400whp 4G63 really need these?

MustGoFaster · 05-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Haven't gotten that far yet, but on page 2, there's some interesting info.

It says that if arps are used and torqued just beyond the recommended torque (which I think is fairly common practice) and THEN the head lifts for any reason, the ARP studs are not to be used again, as they can become stretched and integrity compromised.

Has anyone locally experienced this? If this is in fact true, it could certainly be why my HG is going out again after only 10k miles. The head lifted last fall and when I replaced the headgasket I re-used the same set of ARPs.

Are the L19's really $250? Someone pinch me....can my mere 400whp 4G63 really need these?

By "just beyond" are you talking ~5ft-lbs? If so, I doubt 5 ft lbs over would cause any issue. Depending on how close to the yield strength the TQ spec is, it could matter.

Here is ARP's genral info page :
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Cat...talog_0024.pdf

Mine are TQ'd quite a bit higher than the spec. I would not reuse them at this point, as I should be ridiculously close to the yield point. (Hence why I picked the number I did)

And just be glad L19's are that CHEAP. ARP's for a 6G72 are $300. There are 16 VS 10, and they are a little longer, but 3X the price WTF!!!

4g63tcrazy · 05-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Haven't gotten that far yet, but on page 2, there's some interesting info.

It says that if arps are used and torqued just beyond the recommended torque (which I think is fairly common practice) and THEN the head lifts for any reason, the ARP studs are not to be used again, as they can become stretched and integrity compromised.

Has anyone locally experienced this? If this is in fact true, it could certainly be why my HG is going out again after only 10k miles. The head lifted last fall and when I replaced the headgasket I re-used the same set of ARPs.

Are the L19's really $250? Someone pinch me....can my mere 400whp 4G63 really need these?

Page 3 and on is alot more in depth info and more people running high hp giving their experience. If you lifted the head and torqued the head studs down to the same torque as the first time. Then I would have to say that is FOR SURE why you're head lifted again so soon. If you lifted your head, you stretched the headstuds. Then if you torqued them down the same as before. It's not gonna hold the head down as good second time around.

**scheides** · 05-14-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4g63tcrazy

Read from like the 3rd page on of the link I posted. Also when you do the copper spray you need to do it VERY evenly and you can easily over spray in some area's making the surface uneven.

Ok, finally read through that entire thread, no discussion of copper/no copper, but I think I want to go no copper this time around.

The head studs will get replaced no matter what, but there is a tipping point for deciding between a new set of standard ARPs and the L19s: ultimately, my goals are around 400whp (dyno dynamics). Yup, so I'm pretty much there now and happy. The safe limit of the stock bottom end is around 420whp. Let's say I get the head ported while it's off, install it with L19's and get retuned and make a peachy 425whp. If for some reason the same conditions are met in which I lifted the head in the first place, and the L19's hold, what will happen? Will the bottom-end take it? Will I much rod bearings? Will I blow a hole in my block?

**scheides** · 05-12-2009

What's the point then? I'm thinking no to copper spray if/when I pull the head this time.

**Kracka** · 05-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

What's the point then? I'm thinking no to copper spray if/when I pull the head this time.

I'm just gonna throw this out there....no spray + new OEM studs

4g63tcrazy · 05-12-2009

Might as well try something different.. Nothing wrong with experimenting!

FattyBoomBatty · 05-12-2009

I've also reused old headstuds before on one car and it hasn't had any problems, lol. I'd just not use the copper spray. I've never used that stuff, and I've built a LOT of low powered g54b's in my day. That's rep you can't buy.

**Halon** · 05-12-2009

Not sure about EVO's, but for DSM's ARP makes L19 studs, that's what I bought. The stud itself is made of the same material as the A1's. But the nuts/washers are the same ones used on the standard ARP's, as they claim that the stud is the weak point, not the nuts.

I do believe on the A1's, the nuts and washers are made from the L19 material though. That's the main difference between them as far as I know.

I'm going to rock the ARP L19's once I get around to taking the head off.

**Halon** · 05-12-2009

Looks like the A1 brand ones are, yeah. But don't just look at the A1's, look for ARP L19's. Pretty sure in the DSM world they are slightly cheaper than the A1's.

Do you need them, probably not, but IMO why not, you'll never need anything else again, ever. Using that same mindset, did you really need a 4" FMIC?

j/k. It's just you'll never have to worry about head studs ever again, no matter how big you go 5 years from now.

I did a quick search and didn't see the ARP's on any of the site vendors websites, but did see them on a competitors website for $219, which saves you $30. And I'm sure one or more of our site vendors would be willing to match that price.

And if it makes you feel any better, yours are cheaper then the ones for 1G's

**asshanson** · 05-12-2009

Yea, $22 apiece for the basically the best studs out there isn't too bad IMO. I pay $3-$4 for tiny little studs for things like exhaust manifold to head at the hardware store, now that's a ripoff.

And I agree, if you lifted the head I'd torque them another 10lbs, then probably just get the better ones after that.

**scheides** · 05-12-2009

Well FFS this all makes sense now. I wish I had knew this info before. So the question now is, do I just get another set of regular ARPs at $90 or more than double that for a set of the L19's? Theoretically a brand new set of new standard ARPs should do me fine...Gah, decisions.

So that brings me back to my original question I guess. I'm gonna pop the valve cover off and re-torque. I think I did 88 before, perhaps I should do 93 or 95?

Brandon, I'm thinking of stripping the paint off of my valvecover and shaving it. When would be a good time for you to do a little powder coating for me?