50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust - Page 3

Wizard · 05-09-2005

Not only crankwalk, But I can't count the number of 7-bolt motors that have spun rod bearings. Almost usually #3. Plus the inherent weakness that is associated with the smaller rods, etc. I would second either a 6-bolt, 2.4L or buy a decent used 7-bolt and take it easy until you save up.

Wiz

**Kracka** · 05-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard

Plus the inherent weakness that is associated with the smaller rods

He is building the engine...

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 05-09-2005

If you really damaged a rod or spun a rod bearing, then there is a good chance that your crank or block are beyond repairable. How is Shindley saving you money by rebuilding a motor that will very possibly crankwalk or fail again soon, then you will just have to do it all over again. You have to look beyond his advice, he might sound like he is the end all for DSM tech with the way he presents himself and talks, but he is actually wrong on a lot of the things he believes and a few years behind what a lot of the people on here are doing.

**JET** · 05-09-2005

That is pretty crazy Shane, I was going to make an almost identical post until I saw yours! Don't believe everything Rick says, he is very convincing. You would be better off putting in a stock 6 bolt with stock bore,freshen it up, and put in 2g pistons and new rings. You don't need rods or forged pistons for the power you will be making.

**Kracka** · 05-09-2005

Also keep in mind a select few people on this board hate Shindley; he has done nothing but great work for many many others (me included).

Raptor · 05-09-2005

I have to say this, I don't hate Rick, I don't agree with a lot of what he does/says but I am sure he would likely say the same fore me. I will say I agree with what JET and Shane posted. Rick has done decent work for many people. The one thing that I will go toe to toe with anyone on is this, you don't put ARP mains in without align honing period. Bad engine building practice. That alone makes me question what else he doesn't know.

Pimpin Dsmstyle · 05-09-2005

Sounds like you should get some repair work done on your car before you keep modding it. Slllow down buddy

Onefast99gsx · 05-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

align honing.

Is that the same as line boring?

CDeutsch · 05-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

The one thing that I will go toe to toe with anyone on is this, you don't put ARP mains in without align honing period. Bad engine building practice. That alone makes me question what else he doesn't know.

When I first brought my 2.4 block to Steve at Headwerks (over 3 years ago now) I told him I was going with ARP mains and he immediately told me the same thing, so I ended up just using new stock Mitsu mains. Someone needs to come up with a big list of do and don'ts for 4G63/64 rebuilds. Too much money seems to be wasted on bad rebuilds. In fact lets start the list right now with the number one "Don't":
1) Don't build a "built" 7-bolt motor.

Raptor · 05-09-2005

yep, with the obvious difference of honing to correct size with a common arbor as opposed to removing a lot of material to change diameter. Same basic concept.

Onefast99gsx · 05-09-2005

Thanks....gotcha. I can see where your statement in post #43 above is very critical then.

**JET** · 05-09-2005

Yeah, I don't hate Rick either. If anybody should, it should be me. We actually talked it all out a while back. I would send someone there to have a timing belt, tranny rebuild, or something done (and have), but he is WAY behind the times on his modding. Maintenance or a stock rebuild, fine, but performance stuff I would go to a performance shop.

One more thing to think about, Rick is not a licensed shop so you have very limited forms of recourse if something goes wrong.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 05-09-2005

I don't hate Rick, but I have talked to him before and he didn't give me the impression that he seems to give most of his customers who might not quite know as much about how an AFC or turbo actually works. He is a person who actually needs to get on somewhere like DSMTalk or Tuners and see how some things actually work in the real world and maybe get out of the mid 90s in his advice.

BKs50trimGST · 05-10-2005

I talked to Shindley today about C/W and it's very easy to test your car for crankwalk i guess, when he pulls my engine apart in the next day or two he's checking for exactly what happened to the car, for all we know it could be crankwalk, he doesn't believe so because of how the car sounded and how it takes a good 5-7 seconds to start now, he said that if your car is shoowing signs of crankwalk all you have to do is change the bearing (something like that) and the car will be fine - now if you've damaged the crank - then either you buy a new one or get the 6-bolt, shindley isn't against 6-bolts at all and you and i all know that, right now my $$ situation isn't the greatest and if i were to buy a 6-bolt, get it rebuilt and modded - it's alot more than just rebuilding and modding a 7-bolt. all i have to say is, yes shindley may be convincing - but he knows his shit - he may talk alot but he does know exactly what he's talking about. as for align honing when putting in ARP mains i really like to know more about that before he sends it away to the machine shop, because if it is critical to making my engine better or lasting i would like to make sure he does it, even if he's against it. And please for the love of god, u all know that some of you go to Shindley for advice. Just making sure, are Wiseco pistons, and Eagle rods good? well i know they are but anybody out there think a set-up for a 7bolt 2g that's better?

slowbubblecar · 05-10-2005

I would rather put a stock 6 bolt in my car than a race 7 bolt. DON"T get the race 7 bolt. It wouldn't be much more to build up a 6 bolt if you are set on a race motor. I don't see why you really need a race motor if you are sticking with the 50 trim anyhow. For cw, you can replace the crank bearings, but it isn't going to prevent it from walking. It is more of a delayed death. Eagles and wisecos are good, but I would rethink your plans. Hope you don't plan on using a big clutch for the 7 bolt. If you are on a budget, why would you do a race motor anyhow?

BKs50trimGST · 05-10-2005

i'm not, just building it up a little stronger, this car is a daily driven car that i want to be able to go fast with once in a while and not have to worry about breaking something internally. as for cw, later in life when it does crankwalk i hope by then i will be able to afford a 6bolt and be able to make my car a race motor, for now i'm just want it done. how about this - i'm rebuilding my 7-bolt, what should i do to make it a better 7 bolt? very random>> anyone have a pic of a stock 1g 7bolt head>? up close? also, someone explain to me align honing when putting in the arp mains>> is it an important thing to do when rebuilding an engine>?

A//// Guy · 05-10-2005

It could cw right away, that is what you DONT realize. Why waste alot of money on 7bolt internals when youll have to do it again when it CW's. You keep asking how and what to do to make your engine last a long time with your 50 trim. Seriously if its all about money then find a good condition stock 6bolt and swap that in. You will save money, time and be happy in the end versus dealing with an engine that will die sooner or later.

slowbubblecar · 05-10-2005

I don't think you will need arp mains and a stock motor should be fine with your setup. I don't think you will be making too much power, maybe a little over 300 is my guess. I'd worry about getting a logger before building a race motor.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 05-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettostyle

I'd worry about getting a logger before building a race motor.

2G dataloggers are about as useful as the blinky A/F gauges. He should take the money for the aftermarket rods/pistons and buy something that can log for real like DSMLink.

howslowcanyougo · 05-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

2G dataloggers are about as useful as the blinky A/F gauges. He should take the money for the aftermarket rods/pistons and buy something that can log for real like DSMLink.

I agree totaly, you NEED to log knock to properly tune you car without damaging it!

And the ONLY way to really do it right on a 2G is with DSMLINK!

Man you'd be way better off with a descent used 6 bolt and a used DSMLINK than a pre-walked, rebuilt 7 bolt with no knock logger!

If it's just a manner of money, then just save your money till you can do the job right, come'on man, don't walk back into the same damm hole your just trying to crawl out of???

Listen to what about 10 differnet DSM gurus are telling you here on this board < but exclude me as I am not a guru, but I'm just smart enough to listen and learn from these guys>, they are really trying to help you out here!

IMHO