Shooting at Fort Hood, TX - Page 4

**Kracka** · 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by A//// Guy

I dont get why he would be banned for that? There is a lot of racist thoughts in this thread. Its not totally direct blows, but they are there.

How does having muslims fighting for us even compare to Nazis fighting for the US back in WW2. That makes no sense at all. Nazisism isnt a religion, neither is communism. You cant compare a religion to political agenda and thought.

There is a lot of bad in this thread but we don't need member bashing to be added to that list. The forum rules are simple.

Viscious' comparison is dead-on accurate. What exactly is the difference between religion and political agenda? Nothing, both are thoughts and beliefs, nothing more.

hellomynameis · 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

Viscious' comparison is dead-on accurate. What exactly is the difference between religion and political agenda? Nothing, both are thoughts and beliefs, nothing more.

No, it's not! You guys keep implying that if you are Muslim you must either be a terrorist or support terrorism. If you are a Nazi you have made a conscious decision to support certain positions on the worthiness of other people. Being a Muslim doesn't not automatically mean you hate all Americans and wish to kill them. There are millions of practicing Muslims who do not support this view and I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of them serving in the US armed forces because they do not agree with the extremist terrorist Muslims and wish to see them dead as much as you or I.

Why is this so hard to understand? Do I need to draw you a Venn diagram?

Also, for any of you who have implied that I am a liberal, you're way off the mark. I'm simply a person who doesn't accept the blanket discrimination and or segregation of anyone because it is morally wrong!

And seriously, RLFebo doesn't deserve to be banned, despite his misuse of the word racist, he's 100% correct. You guys are bigots, plain and simple. Ban me for a week, a year, or life. I don't care; you disgust me.

A//// Guy · 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

Viscious' comparison is dead-on accurate. What exactly is the difference between religion and political agenda? Nothing, both are thoughts and beliefs, nothing more.

Haha wow.. the ignorance in this thread is amazing.

Negative political agendas are not the same as a personal religious belief. Unless you are using your religion to fuel war, and in some Muslims cases, this is true. You are grouping all Muslims into one category, and that's wrong.

And Im going to totally agree with Hellomynameis on the racist/ban talk.

**Kracka** · 11-12-2009

Call me names all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, but if you break religion or political affiliation down into the simplest of terms they're both nothing more than personal (or group) thoughts, feelings, and beliefs.

**Kracka** · 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellomynameis

You guys keep implying that if you are Muslim you must either be a terrorist or support terrorism.

You guys keep saying this but please tell me where one of us has actually said it? As far as I'm concerned all of us have made it very clear that we understand not all muslims are bad people and/or terrorists.

A//// Guy · 11-12-2009

Then why did you guys say they shouldn't be allowed in the military?

**1ViciousGSX** · 11-12-2009

OK, let me clarify a few things:

RLFebo is banned for good reason. I, nor will any Admin here allow a personal attack on one, any, or all members of this forum for any reason. I don't care if you disagree 100% with a discussion, people (that includes you & me) are entitled to their opinions and should be allowed to say or post them without that type of outburst. As long as I've been a member of this site (which goes back to when it all started originally) it has been an open/free speech forum that allows personal expression pretty much unchecked. But we do have limits.

Do I believe Muslims should be allowed into the military, sure I do, especially if they were born and raised here. And that also comes with an understanding that anybody (not just a Muslim) can enlist for the purpose of hurting our military efforts to help the enemy. Why should we automatically trust that someone who is not a U.S. citizen would 100% be with us instead of trying to hurt us. Just seems too risky for me to allow foreigners into the military for that one reason.

I know that all Muslims are not terrorist or the enemy (and I'm sure most on this forum feel the same way), but there is no clear marker that distinguishes the honest, hard working peaceful Muslims from the ones that want to do what this guy did until it's too late. But in this case the markers were there which makes it that much worse.

Everybody needs to take a deep breath, relax a little here and understand that at a time of war, some things we don't like or think are wrong, happen for the right reason, which is protecting innocent lives and this country.

**Kracka** · 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by A//// Guy

Then why did you guys say they shouldn't be allowed in the military?

As a precaution against the ones who are the extremists. Fair? Not at all, but when a country is at war sometimes you need to take precautions in order to protect the military and citizens. As mentioned earlier in this thread its getting increasingly difficult to determine friend from foe and no matter what actions we take people are going to get hurt and upset, but in my mind this is the lesser of two evils. We're all free to express our own opinions on the matter, but the personal insults and name-calling needs to stop now.

trunks11 · 11-12-2009

It is a sad irony on humanity that religions which are supposedly founded on peace are constantly used for propaganda for death and destruction. The cycle of hate continues back and forth as it always has in our history from the dawn of civilization.

Does religion cause violence, or does man use religion as an excuse for violence?

I don't know the answer. Whenever something like this happens I find myself angered by the religious affiliation of the perpetrators. However, I then realize that it is the very anger that I feel towards them that they felt at some point towards a country or religion that has fueled their actions.

From the Crusades to WWII to the Gulf War and Afghanistan; we just keep on killing each other.

**Kracka** · 11-12-2009

Both is the answer to your question. Humans are violent by nature and religion just gives us a reason to hate.

**scheides** · 11-12-2009

Everyone read this!

So, um...yea. This is a car forum. I understand people are passionate about this, but seriously, you guys all need to calm down. If you are replying to an open-ended statement that someone made, no matter how thought-provoking it is, just remember: this is the Internet! This forum is here for collaboration, learning, and FUN and if you aren't here for that, then GTFO!

This is my first and last post in this thread, carry on.

A//// Guy · 11-12-2009

Ive always wondered what the magical Scheides thought about political topics. haha

**Kracka** · 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by A//// Guy

Ive always wondered what the magical Scheides thought about political topics. haha

LOL he is smart and stays out of them.

**Halon** · 11-13-2009

Dumb question:

How many of those suggesting how the military be ran (exclude certain groups), have actually served in the military, and served with someone that falls into one of these groups that should be excluded?
It's a horrible thing what happened there, lots of innocent lives were taken for no reason. But this event was done by extremeists, and to punish an entire culture based on the events done by extremists, is not right and very much not 'American' (in my opinion, which everyone has their own). I personally can't think of a more honorable and noble approach of trying to earn your citizenship into this country, than by putting your own life on the line for it.

Can I make a poor attempt at making a comparison? Did an innocent life not get taken this summer by someone from the "SC crowd" (sorry couldn't think of a better word) out on University this year late at night? I'm sure the Police in some way feel they're at 'war' with "street-racers" specifically the SC crowd (don't tell me none of you have ever felt like the cops watch you a little closer because of your car). How would you feel if they came down and put sanctions on anyone driving anything that could be lumped into that same crowd, because it's "your people" who are the problem? It's the lesser of the two evils as you put it is it not? So a lot of people get upset because they have now put a sanction on driving anything they consider a SC after dusk, but maybe we saved a life here and there... This is supposed to be a free country. That doesn't mean free to do whatever you want, but free to do what you aught to do and what is right. And what we aught to do and what is right, is to not judge others "by the color of their skin (or religion), but by the content of their character." Again, in my opinion, the day we start excluding groups based on these, is the day this country took a major step backwards.

Don't get me wrong, what happened was horrible, and they obviouslly dropped the ball on this soldier. But to punish an entire group (how many millions of people are we talking here) based on the actions of extremists, in my opinion is wrong. And it doesn't make what happened in Texas right. This guy was obviouslly one of the bad ones who slipped through the cracks somehow, and I hope he gets what he deserves.

OK that's my comment on the whole matter. I'm sure my comments will be picked out one by one by someone and ripped apart, and that's fine because everyone has their opinion. This one is simply mine.

Hasta Luego Muchachos.

**goodhart** · 11-13-2009

^^^ I agree 100%.

A//// Guy · 11-13-2009

Totally agree with brandon, and his comparison is pretty good.

**Kracka** · 11-13-2009

The cops do put sanctions on us down on University in the way of getting pulled over constantly for BS reasons. Like it or not injustice is a way of life.

**1ViciousGSX** · 11-13-2009

To what was said above ^^^.

I'll use your analogy:
We all know the cops look at our cars and lump us into that "group". Why? Because we as a group earned that reputation, plain and simple. If the idiots among us weren't out there running a 1/4 mile between every stop light, or drifting every corner they come to, etc., maybe the police wouldn't have a reason to do what they do to us on a daily basis. It's funny, but everybody who knows me in my home town will tell you I never street race, period. I know people who do and it's their choice to do so. I don't think it's safe and if I took an innocent life over something that stupid I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

So what has happened to lessen our issues with the police, we started policing ourselves. Stopped the street racing and stupid crap to get them off our backs. If somebody gets stupid in a parking lot with their car, we have asked them to leave or run them off. Now the police don't seemed too bothered by us so much anymore. Sure, I still get the look from cops at times, but I don't get harassed.

One thing nobody has brought up yet, but I think is a very good point. What about the men and women who serve beside the Muslim soldiers? How are they handling it? Are they wondering if they should be keeping an eye on the enemy and the Muslims serving with them? Me, I would have that in the back of my mind the whole time I would be fighting along side of them, wondering when I might become their target.

I'll say it again, I'm not a racist or bigot as others have said or implied in this thread, but I am realist, and the reality is that the Muslim community has a problem with how the few are making the many look. Maybe the Muslim community should start policing itself and get rid of the radicals and their radical beliefs towards the white man. That might go a long way with lifting the "stigma" they have at the moment.

**Halon** · 11-13-2009

And I will ask one more time...

Who here that is making comments on how the military is ran, has actually even been in the military making them able to make a knowledgable statement based on personal experience?

I'm done...

**Kracka** · 11-13-2009

The great part about America is that those of us who never were in the military are still able to form and express an opinion. The sames goes for every single person who has posted in this thread.