PG 2013 - Can we get some love here?

[turbotalon1g]

Can you post up some of the rules or changes for the upcoming events please?

[Tachyon]

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

Can you post up some of the rules or changes for the upcoming events please?

This... This would be helpful.

[turbotalon1g]

It's about 20 pages deep on teh honda thread, but i know most on here are interested in teh stock appearing stuff.

[19TsiAwd90]

honda.. =( why so many hondas.. hurts my ears

[turbotalon1g]

I wish they would ban those rotary ass-hats.

[goodhart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFoFNikI2jQ&hd=1

[turbotalon1g]

^Shoot yourself for posting that.

[DSMINMN]

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

^Shoot yourself for posting that.

This.

[Dark2g]

I was wondering if anyone knows what the deal is with fp manifolds with heat shields in stock appearing or do you need to have stock manifolds only? Also can a hta68 be used in SA?

[CornFed2.4]

I thought if you run a heat shield over the FP you'll classify as SA. At least that's what I asked last year. And the response was if it doesn't grab our attention and appears SA than your good.

Cliff notes

14b/16G appearing turbos are stock appearing for 2G. (Wheels don't matter)
FP is fine but needs to be cover with a heat shield.

[Tachyon]

Last year there were two formats of Stock Appearing: SA and SA/U

SA

• Stock appearing turbocharger
  • Compressor / turbo inlet must be stock size
  • No visible external wastegates
  • 2G DSMs may run TD05H variations (14B, 16G, etc)
• Must have stock appearing intake and exhaust manifolds (Swaps between generations allowed)
• Front mount intercoolers and upgraded BOV allowed
• Unlimited fuel modifications (alternative fuel allowed, no nitrous)
• DOT approved Tires Only, tread rating over 100 required
• Must have full interior & exhaust that exits behind rear tires
• Any ECU mods allowed (standalones allowed)

SA/U

• Stock frame turbocharger
  • External wastegates are acceptable in any configuration
  • Intake and Exhaust manifold upgrades are acceptable in any configuration
  • 2G DSMs may run TD05H variations (14B, 16G, etc)
• Must have full exhaust that exists behind rear tires
• Unlimited fuel modifications (alternative fueling allowed, injection of methanol and nitrous allowed)
• Any ECU mods allowed (standalones allowed)
• Tire Restrictions
  • AWD/RWD -- DOT approved drag radials
  • FWD -- Slicks up to 24.5"

I was placed in SA/U due to my EWG. Honestly I would have much preferred to be in straight up SA as that's where all my friends (as well as closer competition) was.

That being said, if GT-R's show up again, it's basically an auto win in SA for them. I can't think of any other import that can trap 135+ with bolt-ons and still look completely stock. It will be interesting to see how MAP writes the rules this year.

[URV8SUX]

THESE ARE NOT THE RULES JUST MY IDEA I HAD BACK IN DECEMBER TO TRY TO GET RULES OUT FOR PG BEFORE FEBURARY BUT THAT'S TOMORROW!

What do you think?


*Real Street Natural (RS/N)

-Heads-Up, Pro-tree (.400) class for naturally aspirated, street driven, oem frame import/sport compacts with full interior, exhaust.

- Tires: DOT approved radials only

- Exhaust: Muffler(s) are required. *Exhaust must exit behind rear

- Body: One piece and widened front ends prohibited. *Bumpers can not be removed.
Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. *No lexan allowed.

- Chassis and suspension: All vehicles must retain factory chassis. Vehicles must maintain stock drive configuration. *Wheelie bars and straight axles prohibited.

- Engine: Import vehicles may run 4 & 6 cylinder motors, as well as rotary motors. *Domestic manufactured vehicles are limited to FWD, 4 cylinder engines. Engine manufacturer must match chassis manufacturer. *

- Power Adders: No power adders allowed. *Power adders include turbochargers, superchargers, and nitrous oxide systems. *All nitrous components prohibited even if bottle is not present.

- Lights: Headlights and brake lights are required (one headlight may be removed for induction).

- Windows: All windows must be OEM glass.

- Interior: Stock dashboard and full interior from front seats forward. *2 front seats and interior panels required. *No rear seats ok. *No gutted cars permitted. *

- Trans/Clutch/Shifter: Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are prohibited. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited. *Manual or Auto transmissions are permitted. *
Sequential transmissions are prohibited. *The use of slider, adjustable, or slipper style clutch prohibited. Three discs maximum (any type of disk material is permitted). Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot.

- Fuel: Gasoline and E-85 permitted. *Methanol and E98 not permitted.

- Fuel System: Electric fuel pumps only are permitted. Aftermarket fuel cells are not permitted.




*Outlaw Natural (OT/N)

-Heads-Up, Pro-tree (.400) class for naturally aspirated 4/6 cylinder or rotary oem frame import/sport compact vehicles. *No restrictions on exhaust or interior.

- Tires: Slicks up to 26"

- Exhaust: No restrictions.

- Body: Bumpers can not be removed. *Lexan allowed. *Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle.

- Chassis and suspension: All vehicles must retain factory chassis. Vehicles must maintain stock drive configuration. *Wheelie bars and straight axles prohibited.

- Engine: Import vehicles may run 4 & 6 cylinder motors, as well as rotary motors. *Domestic manufactured vehicles are limited to FWD, 4 cylinder engines. Engine manufacturer must match chassis manufacturer. *

- Power Adders: No power adders allowed. *Power adders include turbochargers, superchargers, and nitrous oxide systems. *All nitrous components prohibited even if bottle is not present.

- Windows: Lexan allowed.

- Interior: Gutted cars permitted.

- Trans/Clutch/Shifter: Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are prohibited. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited. *Manual or Auto transmissions are permitted. *
Sequential transmissions are prohibited. *The use of slider, adjustable, or slipper style clutch prohibited. Three discs maximum (any type of disk material is permitted). Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot.

- Fuel: Gasoline, E-85 and E98 permitted. *Methanol not allowed.

- Fuel System: Electric fuel pumps only are permitted. Aftermarket fuel cells are permitted, but must be mounted in rear of vehicle.





*Real street(RS/U)

-Heads-Up, Pro-tree (.400) class for FWD, RWD and AWD, street driven, oem frame import/sport compacts with interior. *Power adders allowed.

- Tires: FWD/RWD slicks allowed up to 25”. *AWD any size DOT drag radials.

- Exhaust: Exhaust may exit anywhere. *Open downpipe allowed.

- Body: One piece front ends not allowed. *Bumpers can not be removed. *Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. *No lexan allowed. *All body panels must be run.

- Chassis and suspension: All vehicles must retain factory chassis. Vehicles must maintain stock drive configuration. *Wheelie bars and straight axles prohibited.

- Engine: 4 and 6 cylinder import engines and 2 rotor import engines allowed. *8 cylinder and 3 rotor engines must be naturally aspirated. *Domestic compact cars limited to 4 cylinders. *No air-cooled engines allowed. *Motor swaps allowed. *Engine manufacturer must match chassis manufacturer. ***

- Nitrous: *Not allowed. *All nitrous components prohibited from turbocharged cars even if bottle is not present.

- Superchargers: *Any supercharger allowed on 4 cylinder cars. *Superchargers not allowed on 6 cylinder engines.

- Turbocharger: *Single turbo only. *Max turbo 62.9mm inducer size.

- Intercooler: Water to air intercoolers are not allowed.

- Lights: Headlights and brake lights are required (one headlight may be removed for induction).

- Windows: All windows must be OEM glass.

- Interior: Stock dashboard and full interior from front seats forward. *2 front seats and interior panels required. *No rear seats ok.

- Trans/Clutch/Shifter: Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are prohibited. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited. *Manual or Auto transmissions are permitted. *
Sequential transmissions are prohibited. *The use of slider, adjustable, or slipper style clutch prohibited. Three discs maximum (any type of disk material is permitted). Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot.

- Fuel: Gasoline and E-85 permitted. *Methanol injection permitted. *Methanol in main fuel tank and E98 not allowed.

- Fuel System: Electric fuel pumps only are permitted. Aftermarket fuel cells are not permitted.






*True street(TS)

-Heads-Up, Pro-tree (.400) class for FWD, RWD and AWD, oem frame import/sport compacts with some interior. *Power adders allowed.

- Tires: FWD/RWD/AWD slicks allowed up to 25”.

- Exhaust: Exhaust may exit anywhere. *Open downpipe allowed.

- Body: One piece front ends allowed. *Bumpers can not be removed. *Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. *No lexan allowed. *All body panels must be run.

- Chassis and suspension: All vehicles must retain factory chassis. Vehicles must maintain stock drive configuration. *Wheelie bars and straight axles prohibited.

- Engine: 4 and 6 cylinder import engines and 2 rotor import engines allowed. *8 cylinder and 3 rotor engines must be naturally aspirated. *Domestic compact cars limited to 4 cylinders. *No air-cooled engines allowed. *Motor swaps allowed. *Engine manufacturer must match chassis manufacturer. ***

- Nitrous: *Not allowed. *All nitrous components prohibited from turbocharged cars even if bottle is not present.

- Superchargers: *Any supercharger allowed on 4 cylinder cars. *Superchargers not allowed on 6 cylinder engines.

- Turbocharger: *Single turbo only. *Max turbo 67.9mm inducer size.

- Intercooler: Water to air intercoolers are not allowed.

- Lights: Headlights and brake lights are required (one headlight may be removed for induction).

- Windows: All windows must be OEM glass.

- Interior: Stock dashboard and full interior from front seats forward. *2 front seats required. No rear seats ok, gutted rear ok.

- Trans/Clutch/Shifter: Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are prohibited. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited. *Manual or Auto transmissions are permitted. *
Sequential transmissions are prohibited. *The use of slider, adjustable, or slipper style clutch prohibited. Three discs maximum (any type of disk material is permitted). Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot.

- Fuel: Gasoline, E-85, and E98 permitted. *Methanol injection permitted. *Methanol in main fuel tank not allowed.

- Fuel System: Electric fuel pumps only are permitted. *Aftermarket fuel cells are permitted, but must be mounted in rear of vehicle.






*Outlaw(OT)

-Heads-Up, Pro-tree (.400) class for FWD, RWD and AWD, oem frame cars. *Power adders allowed.

- Tires: FWD/RWD/AWD slicks allowed up to 26.5”. *DOT drag radials up to 28” allowed.

- Exhaust: Exhaust may exit anywhere. *Open downpipe allowed.

- Body: One piece front ends allowed on import cars. *Bumpers can not be removed. *Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. *Lexan allowed. *All body panels must be run.

- Chassis and suspension: All vehicles must retain factory chassis. Vehicles must maintain stock drive configuration. *Wheelie bars prohibited.

-Engine Management: *All cars must run electronic fuel injection. *No carbureted cars.

- Engine: 4 and 6 and 8 cylinder engines and 2 rotor and 3 rotor engines allowed. *Motor swaps allowed. *Engine manufacturer must match chassis manufacturer. ***430 cubic inch max engine size.

- Nitrous: *Nitrous allowed on all 4 cylinder and 2 rotor cars. *Nitrous allowed on 6 cylinder, 8 cylinder, and 3 rotor cars that don’t have another power adder.

- Superchargers: *Any supercharger allowed on 4 cars. *3.3l max supercharger size for twin screw/roots style superchargers on 6 and 8 cylinder cars. *4” max inlet diameter for centrifugal superchargers on 6 and 8 cylinder cars.

- Turbocharger: *Single turbo max turbo 76.9mm inducer size. *Twin turbo max turbo 63.6mm inducer size.

- Intercooler: Water to air intercoolers are allowed.

- Lights: Headlights and brake lights are required (one headlight may be removed for induction).

- Windows: Lexan allowed.

- Interior: Gutted cars ok.

- Trans/Clutch/Shifter: Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are prohibited. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited. *Manual or Auto transmissions are permitted. *
Sequential transmissions are prohibited. *The use of slider, adjustable, or slipper style clutch prohibited. Three discs maximum (any type of disk material is permitted). Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot.

- Fuel: Gasoline, E-85, and E98 permitted. *Methanol injection permitted. *Methanol in main fuel tank not allowed.

- Fuel System: *Aftermarket fuel cells are permitted, but must be mounted in rear of vehicle.






*Stock appearing(SA)

-Heads-Up, Pro-tree (.400) class for 4 cylinder stock appearing turbocharged or supercharged, street driven, oem frame import/sport compacts with full interior and full exhaust. *Turbocharger or supercharger must be OEM based or a similar to OEM turbocharger. *Common cars in this class would be WRX, Sti, Evo, Cobalt, Eclipse, Talon, and others.

- Tires: DOT approved radials only. *100 treadwear or higher.

- Exhaust: Full exhaust required, must exit behind rear axle.

- Body: Bumpers can not be removed. *Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. *No lexan allowed. *All body panels must be run.

- Chassis and suspension: All vehicles must retain factory chassis. Vehicles must maintain stock drive configuration. *Wheelie bars and straight axles prohibited.

- Engine: Limited to 4 cylinder engines. Engine manufacturer must match chassis manufacturer. *Aftermarket camshafts, valvetrain, rods, sleeves, crankshafts, pistons, allowed, but must look stock externally.

- Modifications: *Front mount intercooler allowed, aftermarket BOV allowed, upgraded piping allowed.

- Mass airflow sensor: *Factory mass airflow cars must retain a MAS/MAF from OEM manufacturer, in front of turbo. *Cars may be converted to speed density for actual engine management, but OEM similar MAS/MAF must be on car, it does not need to be plugged in or functional. *Removable MAS/MAF sensors(Evo X, Subaru, etc) may be moved into larger pipes. *MAS/MAF sensors from different cars from same manufacturer may be used(Evo or 2G MAS on 1G DSM for example).

- Wastegates: *No obviously visible external wastegates allowed. *Mostly hidden wastegates are allowed(External wastegate on uppipe on Subaru for example).

- Intake manifold / exhaust manifold: Must have stock appearing intake and exhaust manifolds (Swaps between generations allowed). *Aftermarket exhaust manifold allowed, if it can be hidden with a stock heat shield.

- Nitrous: *Nitrous allows on supercharged cars. *Not allowed on turbocharged cars. *All nitrous components prohibited from turbocharged cars even if bottle is not present.

- Superchargers: *OEM appearing supercharger allowed. *Internal upgrades and porting allowed.

- Turbocharger: *Single turbocharger. *Turbocharger must be a generally accepted “stock frame” turbocharger. *This would include stock turbochargers that came on the car, stock turbochargers with upgraded upgraded wheels or housings, or aftermarket turbos that emulate the mounting style and appearance of the stock turbo(For example MAP EF3, CBRD BBK, FP Black, Blouch Dominator 3.0XT). *Turbo must mount in oem location. *Turbo swaps from different cars made by same manufacturer allowed(VF39 from STI on WRX, Evo 3 16G on 2G DSM, etc). *Rotated turbo setups not allowed. *A factory exhaust manifold/up-pipe must be able to bolt to turbo even if factory aren’t used. *A factory downpipe/O2 housing must be able to bolt to turbo even if factory aren’t used. *PTE and Bullseye or similar Mitsubishi exhaust housing turbos not allowed. *61.5mm maximum turbocharger compressor wheel inducer size. *3.40” maximum size turbocharger inlet.

- Lights: Headlights and brake lights are required (one headlight may be removed for induction).

- Windows: All windows must be OEM glass.

- Interior: Stock dashboard and full interior from front seats forward. *2 front seats and interior panels required. *No rear seats ok. *No gutted cars permitted. *

- Trans/Clutch/Shifter: Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are prohibited. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited. *Manual or Auto transmissions are permitted. *
Sequential transmissions are prohibited. *The use of slider, adjustable, or slipper style clutch prohibited. Three discs maximum (any type of disk material is permitted). Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot.

- Fuel: Gasoline and E-85 permitted. *Methanol injection permitted. *Methanol in main fuel tank and E98 not allowed.

- Fuel System: Electric fuel pumps only are permitted. Aftermarket fuel cells are not permitted.





*Stock Appearing Unlimited(SA/U)

-Heads-Up, Pro-tree (.400) class for 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder bolt-on style turbocharged cars. Turbocharger must use a stock style flange for that manufacturer. *Common cars in this class would be GTR, 3000GT, Supra, 300ZX, WRX, Sti, Evo, Eclipse, Talon, and others.


- Tires: *Any size DOT radial tire is permitted. *Slicks up to 26” tall.

- Exhaust: No restrictions.

- Body: Bumpers can not be removed. *Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. *Lexan allowed. *

- Chassis and suspension: All vehicles must retain factory chassis. Vehicles must maintain stock drive configuration. *Wheelie bars and straight axles prohibited.

- Engine: Limited to 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines. Engine manufacturer must match chassis manufacturer. *Aftermarket camshafts, valvetrain, rods, sleeves, crankshafts, pistons allowed.

- Modifications: *Front mount intercooler allowed, aftermarket BOV allowed, upgraded piping allowed.

- Wastegates: *External wastegates allowed. *

- Intake manifold: *Any style aftermarket intake manifolds may be used.

- Exhaust manifold: *Any style exhaust manifolds may be used with stock frame turbochargers like those allowed in the SA class. *Only cast exhaust manifolds are allowed with non-stock frame/stock bolt pattern turbos like those from PTE or Bullseye.


- Nitrous: *Allowed.

- Superchargers: *OEM appearing supercharger allowed. *Internal upgrades and porting allowed.

- Turbocharger: *Single or twin turbocharger. *Turbocharger must use an inlet flange that would bolt to a factory exhaust manifold. *This would include stock turbochargers that came on the car, stock turbochargers with upgraded upgraded wheels or housings, or aftermarket turbos that are meant to bolt to a factory flange(For example SCM50, MAP EF4, CBRD BBK, FP Black, Blouch Dominator 4.0XT). *Non OEM location mounting allowed. *Turbo swaps from different cars made by same manufacturer allowed(VF39 from STI on WRX, Evo 9 turbo on 2G DSM, etc). *Rotated turbo setups allowed with stock frame turbo. *A factory flanged exhaust manifold/up-pipe must be able to bolt to turbo even if factory aren’t used and turbo isn’t in factory location. *A factory downpipe/O2 housing must be able to bolt to turbo even if factory aren’t used. *PTE and Bullseye or similar Mitsubishi exhaust housing turbos ARE allowed, but must use a cast exhaust manifold. *Single turbo 61.5mm maximum turbocharger compressor wheel inducer size. *Twin turbo 53.5mm maximum turbocharger compressor wheel inducer size. *4” maximum size turbocharger inlet.

- Windows: Lexan allowed.

- Interior: Gutted cars permitted. *

- Trans/Clutch/Shifter: Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are prohibited. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited. *Manual or Auto transmissions are permitted. *
Sequential transmissions are prohibited. *The use of slider, adjustable, or slipper style clutch prohibited. Three discs maximum (any type of disk material is permitted). Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot.

- Fuel: Gasoline, E-85, and E98 permitted. *Methanol injection permitted. *Methanol in main fuel tank not allowed.

- Fuel System: Electric fuel pumps only are permitted. Aftermarket fuel cells are permitted.

[Dark2g]

Thanks for the info. Surprised about the speed density part but I could just pop the maf back in for the day for looks.

[Halon]

Nate, nice list you started. Lots of detail!

So is the difference between your RS/U vs TS pretty much just the turbo size?

[Tachyon]

Thanks for the information!

Quick question, for each class you state, "H-pattern only, no sequential."

Does this mean all BMW/Audi/VW factory equipped DSG equipped cars, as well as the Nissan GT-R are excluded from the drag events?

[Shane@DBPerformance]

The H-pattern stuff would probably need to be changed, those kinds of rules were usually used to keep people from running crazy true sequential tranny setups on older cars like Hondas, DSMs and Supras. Which probably nobody around here or at PG would have anyways, but you would want to be able to allow the GT-R, Evo X MR, and DSG cars.

[maperformance]

These rules that have been posted were given to me by Nate on 12/24 as a guideline to what he would like to see at this years events, I would like to publicly thanks him for his input and help thus far but my problem is not just about the classing details, its about do we class domestics with import or separately.

If we class them separately we would have an import vs domestic showdown of some sort on Sunday, or do we alter our existing classes to allow for domestics and let them run with the imports. But I worry about not having "fair" classes for all racers. Although we'd like to have more of a domestic presence we do want to keep things as competitive as possible...

What is everyone's opinions on this?

Thanks,
DC

[URV8SUX]

Originally Posted by Halon

Nate, nice list you started. Lots of detail!

So is the difference between your RS/U vs TS pretty much just the turbo size?

Yeah the difference is turbo, fuel, widened/1 piece front ends.

The only reason for the 67mm class is there are a lot if cars with that new PTE 6466 and 67mm cars that as of last years rules would have to race Outlaw witch wouldn't be fair!

[Tachyon]

Originally Posted by maperformance

What is everyone's opinions on this?

Would the domestic field involve V8's, or be limited to I4's as the current thinking suggests?

[bramagedained]

Well, from that one post of rules here, I like that there's a True Street. Last year me, Troy and I think a couple other guys ended up in the BECAUSE RACECAR class due to having 6466's in what were otherwise full weight street cars.

I don't see why mechanical fuel pumps would be a no-go for TS either since you're still limited by turbo size anyway. I don't have or plan on having one, I just don't understand the point of this rule.

No superchargers on 6cyls seems a bit odd for RS/TS, the only 6s that I see supercharged are the occasional 350z/370z and they wouldn't be at some massive advantage because of it