Head Porting Question

95talonracer · 11-08-2006

I have a new 1g head that just came out of the machine shop. I am building this head up for my 95 with a 6 bolt swap. I plan to put in SS valves, and titanium set of valves and retainers. I am also going to do a bigger cam setup as well but dont know which ones yet.

I was wondering if it is worth it to have the head ported and polished and if so how much? What gains are expected to gain with it ported out? What are the prices that people charge to do this and who is better of all of the shops around the metro area. If you do porting or can help me out or give me a quote please PM me or post it up here.

Thanks!

**Goat Blower** · 11-08-2006

I'm not offering that at this time, I'm sure the other shops will post up if they do. But in general, our heads are pretty good right off the assembly line. A mild clean up of the ports to remove casting boogers is all 97% of the DSM crowd will ever need.

95talonracer · 11-08-2006

Ok so just clean it up and match the runners and gaskets then? What cams should I run with a 6 bolt swap, wisecos, eagles, and a 20g?

**v8klla** · 11-08-2006

PM sent on head porting...

As far as cams HKS are a great choice and pretty much a straight drop in and go. Crower and comp are other options that might save you a little cash.

Chris

niterydr · 11-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95talonracer

Ok so just clean it up and match the runners and gaskets then? What cams should I run with a 6 bolt swap, wisecos, eagles, and a 20g?

I wouldn't touch the head unless you know exactly what you are doing.
What are you looking for out of the car? A 20g is a good 2.0 street turbo and will deliver some good mid-range. Something in the HKS 272/272 combo, a FP 2, Crower 64413's etc are all medium-large grinds that should suit you well on a street car.
Pm me if you need pricing on any of the mentioned items.

95talonracer · 11-08-2006

I have found that the comp cams in my interest are the 272 style and run like 370 or so brand new. Is this a good choice and what are the power increases in these? Also will the crowler springs and titanium retainers be fine? I heard they are good to like 10,000 safe. I have some SS valves and revised lifters with new guides. Anything else ill need here?

Pushit2.0 · 11-09-2006

I would buy ither the FP or HKS cams, I am just not a fan of comp for the dsm market. The items listed above look like a good combo, as long as the machine shop does good head work you will be fine.

~John

niterydr · 11-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95talonracer

I have found that the comp cams in my interest are the 272 style and run like 370 or so brand new. Is this a good choice and what are the power increases in these? Also will the crowler springs and titanium retainers be fine? I heard they are good to like 10,000 safe. I have some SS valves and revised lifters with new guides. Anything else ill need here?

No you will be fine. I would also tend to agree with John that the "old school hks 272" and the new fp cams are great cams for the 4g63 head.

95talonracer · 11-09-2006

Ok. Is there something in particular that is bad or wrong with the comp because I have had several others suggest these for the price that they are?

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 11-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pushit2.0

I would buy ither the FP or HKS cams, I am just not a fan of comp for the dsm market.

FP cams are Comp Cams.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 11-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95talonracer

Ok so just clean it up and match the runners and gaskets then? What cams should I run with a 6 bolt swap, wisecos, eagles, and a 20g?

You can clean up the casting flaws, but don't gasket match the runners. I wouldn't take the normal Crower springs/retainers to anywhere near 10,000 RPMs. The Crower springs aren't a huge upgrade from stock, but they are cheap. Good for someone looking to rev to 8500 with not too extreme of a came. If you want to rev higher than that or even run a cam with a crazy profile design then you will have to some stronger springs.

**Halon** · 11-09-2006

I don't mean to steal your thread, but my question is regarding what's being talked about so I'll just throw it in here. I have the crower springs in my head. Shane when you say you should get something better then crowers to run a cam with a crazy profile, how extreme are we talking? Right now I plan to rev up to 8500, and I'm running 272's. I was contemplating moving up to 280's, or FP3's. What would you say is the limit of these springs?

Super Bleeder!! · 11-09-2006

People have run 8500rpms on 272s with stock valvesprings since the dawn of time.

264s, 272s, and 280s all have the same 10.3mm lift and the same ramp rates, so if whatever spring works with the 272 will work with all of them given the same rpm limits.

Pushit2.0 · 11-09-2006

Crower springs and retainers should hold 280s and the revlimit your looking at. The problem with the crower springs is seat pressure, with the more crazy lifts and ramp rates of the big big cams plus high revs you need 280+lbs of spring pressure(pending cam choice), I think the crower gets up to ~190 lbs with a .400" lift, so dual valve springs is the way to get the spring pressure needed for the big big cams. Its good to know comp and fp are the same. I like how easy it is to see the info on FP's site about the cams, and they are a good price.

~John

Jakey · 11-09-2006

Crower information:
http://www.engintecs.com/html/valve_springs.html

**Halon** · 11-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!

People have run 8500rpms on 272s with stock valvesprings since the dawn of time.

264s, 272s, and 280s all have the same 10.3mm lift and the same ramp rates, so if whatever spring works with the 272 will work with all of them given the same rpm limits.

I understand that, but since I had a head with quite a few miles on it, I decided to just go with some new springs because I wasn't sure how worn out the stock springs were. I had my head off, and figured it was a good time just to go ahead and upgrade them to assure that I wouldn't run into valve float.

But I didn't know that all the HKS cams had the same lift, so that's nice to know that I could upgrade to those. I never plan on revving over 8500, and the only time the motor would ever see that kinda RPM's would be when it's at the track, which it hardly ever will be. Are the FP3's comparible in lift to the HKS's? Or would running those on crower springs be pushing it a little bit?

**v8klla** · 11-09-2006

I'm running Crower 64415 cams with crower springs and retainers, so far no issues up to 8500. I'm not sure what the lift is, but I'm sure that being their race cams it is a significant increase.

Chris

Pushit2.0 · 11-10-2006

I have check both stock DSM and Crower springs and found that at a installed height of 1.57"(stock) that the crower is 7% stronger then stock and at ~.460" lift the Crower spring would be 10% stronger then stock. This was a used stock spring compared to the new Crower but I think the 3% stated by Enginetecs is a little low. Crower springs and retainers with a good valve and valve job with be what most need for their dsm. Then if more is need 1mm over and some port work to fit the setup to produce the most power, its all about sizing everything in the setup to work together to net the best results.

~John

**Goat Blower** · 11-10-2006

The FP3's are designed for the bigger displacement DSM motors and I just heard real good things about them on one of my 2.4's. The FP2's are comparable to the 272's. The x versions of each are a little hairier, but should still be fine on the Crower springs up to the FP3x's.

I'll be upgrading my 272's this winter sometime.

**Halon** · 11-10-2006

It was after hearing about your friends results that I started thinking about going with the FP3's and ditching the 272's. But I didn't realise they're mainly for the larger motors. I'm still 2.0. I suppose I should just stick with my 272's and just be happy with them.