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Halon
12-21-2003, 12:12 AM
...and dont forget to add longer, more complicated piping because its supposidly easier to install and makes it easier to bring the car back to stock.

Kracka
12-21-2003, 11:43 AM
AHP's kit is actually about 10x easier to install...I have done both and his is deffinately easier since absolutely zero hacking is required.

JET
12-21-2003, 05:19 PM
The piping hacking is cake work. The only hard part is if you want to hack the stock bumper. I think it took me 6 hours to install my FMIC with short piping.

Jakey
12-21-2003, 05:57 PM
Has anyone ever done any dyno testing comparing different piping styles on the same core? I guess I don't understand what is so key about having short route piping. Sure there may be a difference rate of air temperature increase due to the pipe length increase but is the increase rate really that large?
Is there a standard composition for intercooler piping or does it vary for each manufacturer?

Kracka
12-21-2003, 06:20 PM
There will be no power difference, the only difference will be a slightly longer spool-up time. Think of it this way though, that air is moving 200-250 mph, how long does it take to move 3 feet at 250 mph (3 feet being the extra piping)? The 178 core with long(er) piping will have aproximately the same spool-up time as a 120 core with short piping. As for metals used, SS is the best since is dissapates heat better than does powdercoated mild steel. SS is of course more expensive, so its another trade-off.

Kracka
12-21-2003, 06:22 PM
To add one more thing to the piping write-up, more vendors, including Buschur, use 18-gauge piping, but AHP uses 16-guage. For comparison, most exhaust sytems are 16-gauge except for brand-names such as Apex'i and GReddy, I forget what they are.

JET
12-21-2003, 06:30 PM
Actually there is a HP loss to longer piping. There is a drag against the surface of the piping, the longer the piping, the more drag area. Not to mention that it has more bends in it which also cause more drag. I would want my IC piping pretty thin. Being thicker for that is just adding weight.

I am not for or against AHP. I have never dealt with them. I am just stating theory.

Kracka
12-21-2003, 06:32 PM
One more thing for piping, SS is the best choice for exhaust systems since it will hold in more heat than bare aluminized steel. Remember, you want to keep that exhaust as hot as possible without restricting the flow...thats why sometimes 3" exhaust is not the size of choice for a fairly stock car.

Kracka
12-21-2003, 06:35 PM
JET has some very valid points. One thing to remember when purchasing an IC system is the differences in end-tanks and piping probably make up a difference of 1-2 horsepower...compared to the 20-30 (don't quote me here, ask Shane for more exact numbers) it really isn't that big of a deal. One more thing to think about (yeah I know I am whoring the thread, but I feel like talking) is how unefficient the endtanks are on short-route IC sytems (thats why VPE did a redesign, too bad there welds can't handle 5 psi). I am not arguing against short-route piping since that is what I have, I am just stating many different points of view. I was originally going to get the AHP kit, but at the time I got a better deal on the Buschur kit so that is the one I went with.

Shane@DBPerformance
12-21-2003, 07:09 PM
I like the endtank design on the AHP cores, but the piping is just long. The endtank design on all the short route 1G kits are not optimal, but at the boost levels we run the endtank design is not all the important. At 6psi endtank design becomes more critical. SS and aluminized steel are probably the worst materials for intercooler piping, but they are the most commonly used due to cost. Mild steel is ok for heat dissipation, but it will rust instantly, so you have to either powdercoat it inside and out or use aluminized steel. Straight aluminum is probably best overall for intercooler piping due to it's fast heat dissipation and very light weight, but you don't see it used as often due to it's higher cost.