removal of monuments from government property

[SlowWhite]

How about the fact that this nation was built on Christian values which does no one any harm. Or that fact that people want to come to America because of what its stands for, but then want to change it into where they came from.

This is exactly how I feel, and I know from re reading some of my posts my view point doesnt always come out clearly.

Our founding fathers although did there best to try to think of everything, they could only create laws based on what they thought our country would allow
And based on the times when it was written, half the stuff thats going on now you'd probably get hung or shot over.

[1ViciousGSX]

I'm not quite sure I see the distinction. What values are we founded on that are Christian?


Here are some that will make sense off the top of my head. Notice they are laws of the land all the way back to the founders that parallel Christian beliefs.

Freedom from oppression.
Freedom to make your own choices.
The belief that all life has value, murder is wrong.
Ownership/property rights and prosecution for theft.
Adultery as grounds for divorce.
Prosecution for slander/lying under oath.

Also notice though, they did not make it mandatory to be a part of the Christian religion (separation of church and state). Nor did they make laws saying you had to follow any one God. They also gave us freedom of speech (no matter how bad it could be, even against a God).

[1ViciousGSX]

This is exactly how I feel, and I know from re reading some of my posts my view point doesnt always come out clearly.

Our founding fathers although did there best to try to think of everything, they could only create laws based on what they thought our country would allow
And based on the times when it was written, half the stuff thats going on now you'd probably get hung or shot over.

Given what they were able to put together using three branches of government and making into law what each one of them could or couldn't do, they were geniuses.

[SlowWhite]

Did you really just say Christian Values does no one any harm... History tends to disagree with you completely.

And how long ago were the crusades?

And what is the church doing now?

(I have my own view of religion, especially when it comes to going to church, I dont tie myself to any one christian denomination as I see faults with them all, so although its christian based i dont put a title on my beliefs.

For me with out religion in our gov. and laws based on it, our world as we know it will plunge back to the stone age.

If you think about it. Almost all of our world is what is today because of Christian or catholic people. And it sucks so many people are undoing century's of work. Because our government (obama... just for you tom because you said you were waiting for it) has made it so people have next to no responsibilities because they know our government will just support them financially.

[tpunx99GSX]

Satan crap - resounding hell no I would be "offended". But that's because I dont agree with whay he stands for. And that also goes for religions that preach hate. And promote killings.

Scientology - i dont know anything about it other then the big bang theory is what i always thought that is what they believe. And the answer to that would be yes, but since we are taking all religion out of our gov.

Then put this stuff in museums or a dedicated building.

Lol Scientology has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Big Bang. It has NOTHING to do with science. It was made up like every other religion by a person. In scientologies case a man by the name of L Ron Hubbard

[SlowWhite]

375;456678]America was founded on the basis of religious freedom, at least according to the Constitution. The word "Christian" isn't anywhere in any document describing our government.[/QUOTE]

Correct, but how many members that wrote the law werent christian?.

So the laws were created based on christian beliefs.

[tpunx99GSX]

And how long ago were the crusades?

And what is the church doing now?

(I have my own view of religion, especially when it comes to going to church, I dont tie myself to any one christian denomination as I see faults with them all, so although its christian based i dont put a title on my beliefs.

For me with out religion in our gov. and laws based on it, our world as we know it will plunge back to the stone age.

If you think about it. Almost all of our world is what is today because of Christian or catholic people. And it sucks so many people are undoing century's of work. Because our government (obama... just for you tom because you said you were waiting for it) has made it so people have next to no responsibilities because they know our government will just support them financially.

Well the church does a lot now and RECENT history. Whether it be oppression of homosexuals, oppression of human rights towards women, as early as the 20s and 40s indoctrination of native Americans where they removed children from their families to make them assimilate into their religions through boarding schools.
You can believe Christianity has changed but you would be wrong. It has as much blood and travesties on it as any other religion.

[tpunx99GSX]

But did the gov. Pay for it?

I know several of the monuments here were privately donated.

Again read the Oklahoma state constitution. I quoted it earlier

[jeremy1375]

Here are some that will make sense off the top of my head. Notice they are laws of the land all the way back to the founders that parallel Christian beliefs.

Freedom from oppression.
Freedom to make your own choices.
The belief that all life has value, murder is wrong.
Ownership/property rights and prosecution for theft.
Adultery as grounds for divorce.
Prosecution for slander/lying under oath.

Also notice though, they did not make it mandatory to be a part of the Christian religion (separation of church and state). Nor did they make laws saying you had to follow any one God. They also gave us freedom of speech (no matter how bad it could be, even against a God).


If those rights came into effect based on Christian values, wouldn't it have been more appropriate to have a list of verses that contain those things in a government building rather than the commandments? The commandments are based on the Christian religion, not values.

As an agnostic, the Ten Commandments in a gov't building give me the impression that one religion is getting favored over another, not values.

[tpunx99GSX]

375;456678]America was founded on the basis of religious freedom, at least according to the Constitution. The word "Christian" isn't anywhere in any document describing our government.

Correct, but how many members that wrote the law werent christian?.

So the laws were created based on christian beliefs.[/QUOTE]

Of the founding fathers only one john jay considered himself to be an orthodox Christian, the rest believed in a diety however did not follow or identify as a Christian or believe Jesus was divine