SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!

[iroc_g]

Green Bay (I know, I know....)

The original idea was to use my car with the new setup I am currently putting together. However, Im not sure that is going to be ready in time. They want to do this before spring, as they obviously don't have nearly the free time then that they do in the winter. So, we are thinking about finding annother person to use for the dyno donkey. None of this is decided yet, but were trying to work everything out.

We plan to the intakes that did the best on the flow bench. Although it would be interesting to test all, thats a lot of passes on somebody's car. Also, we need to make sure that we can get our hands on whatever manifolds are to be tested.

[Halon]

Cool, good luck with it all.

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by Halon

Hasn't exactly that been done a few years back?

Yup, but the industry is different now; profit margins are down among many other things. MAP was nice enough to donate a few hours of dyno time to me for a test I'm doing for the EvoM community (more info on this next week) but I doubt any vendor who didn't stand to profit from the test (or potential sales resulting from the test) would be willing to donate a day (or days) of dyno usage. If Beyond Redline is willing to the host the test I see no reason why their dyno can't be used in a fair, supervised, manner. No matter who hosts it there will be some nitpicker who finds a reason why the test was skewed or unfair if their favorite part didn't perform as well as they expected it to.

[iroc_g]

Kracka: Im honored.

[Swifty1638]

lol..made it into a signature!!!

-A. Swift

[niterydr]

Originally Posted by iroc_g

The plan we have been discussing is to use their facility and dyno, but somebody's car that they do not know, or have any association with. The manifolds would be tested back to back.

Also, we plan to tune the car with each manifold. Obviously, if one manifold allows the engine to breathe better, it will require more fuel. As a rough plan, tune each car to a set AFR, and set timing as high as possible without knock.

Pending the date of the testing, I'd be willing to tune each setup as I am no longer in a shop. I would imagine the best way to benefit from this testing would be to have a car with monitoring equipment, a competent tuner, and a standalone with someone that knows how to use it properly.

What dyno equipment does beyond redline have?

I would be willing to sit in each car and not even look at the engine bay so I have no clue which manifold is which (I'd rather not know honestly).

[turbotalon1g]

They got that covered.

[niterydr]

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

They got that covered.

Sweet, well I can't wait to see the results

[hippiekiller]

Beyond Redline has a good reputation with the WiDSM.org guys it seems. No doubt they would do a good job over there. Bit of a hike to take the manifolds, but not too bad. It will be interesting to see how the manifolds perform on an actual car as apposed to flow bench.

Only thing I can say about which mani's to test is this. Rather than just doing the ones that performed the best on the flow bench it may be wise to also do the most popular ones. How many cars are out there with a magnus for example?

[turbotalon1g]

I think Beyond redline did a good test somewhat last time, they used cars with diff setups to try and cover the HP ranges the only thing was the tunes from manifolds were way different at least on A/F so i dont think that was fair.

[Goat Blower]

Greg, thanks for doing this, I got the info I needed. My cheapo Venom is pretty damn good for cylinder balance, which is what I'm primarily concerned about. And I disagree a bit on the strength of them though. Mine has a lot of 30-32psi dyno runs with zero issues. I'm also happy with the design of it, I see a bit of correlation in cylinder balance and small plenum volume. I've always favored the larger plenums, especially in a 2.4L application.

[iroc_g]

I'm happy to hear you've had good results at that boost level. It seems to be a good part, the statement I made about the boost limit was soley based on some things I read a few years ago when I was looking at buying one. So if she's happy at 30psi, that's awesome!

[Pushit2.0]

With the higher boost just watch the welds on the plenum, this is where the most stress is. If the weld cracks any good TIG welder should be able to fix if no problem.

~John

[Super Bleeder!!]

How often do ya think people who construct intake manifolds heat treat them after all the welds are complete?

I would guess that most do not. DO YOU HEAR ME MAGNUS?!

[Pushit2.0]

That depends on the aluminum alloy and welding method used. I just inside outside weld the hole manifold to avoid any issues. Aluminum is tricky to weld, any pits or sharp corners are the places cracks will start to form. Welding both sides of the pieces ensures proper penetration. If welded properly the weld should be stronger then the base metal. Also using enough heat (amps) and welding rod are important. I will warranty the manifolds I produce to hold as much boost as you can put in there with a turbo, even if Brent Rau wants one, he can runs in 85 Psi without a worry of cracks.
Back on topic how is the page update going?

~John

[JET]

Actually aluminum welds are not as strong as the base metal, that is true for steel though. Aluminum degrades when welded, that is why the heat treatment is important. Most shops don't have enough experience with metallurgy and things like this get overlooked. Most manifolds are made of 6061 aluminum, which has a minimum tolerance of 40k psi, but when welded the tolerance drops to 24k psi. A T6 heat treatment will bring that back up some, but to get back to the original state it must be solution heat treated.

I do agree that aluminum is a PITA to weld, it is much harder than steel or stainless. Welding inside and out usually adds enough material that even at the lower strength it is fine.

[Pushit2.0]

Edit: I did some weld samples and found the 1/8" aluminum plate will crack and break before the weld will. I revert to my original statement that if you weld the aluminum properly it will be stronger then the base material.

~John

[iroc_g]

Sorry guys. We actually have been nusy this week at ProKART, so I haven't been able to spend any time at my desk and finish the page update. Ill get it done asap!

[iroc_g]

I have the most up to date data online now. Still no pictures of the last few though.

[goodhart]

What are the R.E.E.E., or R.E.E.D., or R.E.E.F. prototypes? I'm assuming those are the ones Pushit2.0 made? You might want to edit your page to eliminate any confusion.