14b Is Dieing

**Halon** · 01-01-2004

hey i just gotta question. I think the seals are beginning to go out on the turbo. I can smell the car slightly burning oil now. I've got 153,157,160,160 compression, and refurbished head with new valve stem seals, new head gasket. so i would think none of those are causing the oil burning, which makes me think its prolly the seals goin out in the turbo. If anyone else has any ideas what it could be that is burning oil then please lemme know. But the last thing i wanted to ask was how hard is it to like rebuild the turbo? i've never done any turbo work in my life, and there isn't crap for performance shops around here, so i was thinkin it'd save me a lot of money if i could just rebuild this thing myself, if anyone has tips or any info or anything about rebuilding em, please help point me in the right direction. If its a bad idea for me to try to rebuild it, then don't be scared to tell me im a moron for just thinking of trying it out!

A//// Guy · 01-01-2004

Make sure you pan isnt leaking or the return line from the turbo to the pan, right now mines leaking and after I shut the car off it smells to... I have to get on that soon.

Super Bleeder!! · 01-02-2004

agp is somewhere around you

**Halon** · 01-02-2004

its 3 hours away. and what would shop charge to rebuild a turbo? prolly more then a 14b is worth? figure the cost of them rebuilding it, plus 20 bux in gas there, 20 bux back, the 20 bux there when i go pick it up, 20 bux back, that right there is 80 bux in gas alone. if possible id like to do it myself, unless its not possible for someone to just do. If that's the case and its too expensive to pay someone to do it, ill just run it till it dies and once it dies ill just upgrade to a 50 trim or sumthin.

**Kracka** · 01-02-2004

A turbo rebuild generally runs right around $300.

**Halon** · 01-02-2004

damn, so is it basically something i wouldn't be able to do? its not as easy as poppin in some seals or sumthin. i figure it isn't, but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

MATCHBX · 01-02-2004

Double check for shaft play in the turbo. That would be you first sign that your seals are going out. The "seals" are actually the bushings that the shaft turns inside of. Once they wear themselves out of round, the oil is allowed to leak by. If you have access to an old 14b that is bad, you could practice on that to learn how to do it. You would need a really good set of internal snap-ring pliers (not Fleet Farm $5 specials) and some other misc. regular tools. You would obviously need a rebuild kit. I believe they run close to $100 (please correct me if I'm wrong). Usually it's the bushings that go out but from time to time the shaft wears out where it contacts the bushings. So be prepared that there is possibly internal damage as well. If it's just starting to smoke, then it probably isn't too bad inside there yet. But it won't get any better as time goes on.

I agree with Peter as well. Make sure you are not leaking oil onto something to make it smell like burning oil. That's one of the problems with Terina's car that we will be taking care of in the spring. If she drives normal you don't smell it, but when she gets hard on the throttle it stinks to high heaven when you get out.

**Kracka** · 01-02-2004

Good condition used 14B's generally go for around $100-150.

MATCHBX · 01-02-2004

So basically, if you find one that is used and in decent condition. You could rebuild it for about $200-250, price including rebuild kit (provided you could do the work yourself), and you'd have a nearly new one. Would that be acurate? Was I right in saying the rebuild kits run about $100? That's just what I thought I had seen on a site somewhere before. Do you guys have any links to sites that sell rebuild kits? I used to have one but I have no idea where it went.

CVD · 01-02-2004

You wouldnt quite have a nearly new one. Without the ability to balance everything once you got it back together I seriously doubt the new one would last a real long time.

MATCHBX · 01-02-2004

As long as you use the same wheels I don't see that being a problem. Unless the wheels are damaged. If they aren't, then it would be "almost new" when it was rebuilt.

MustGoFaster · 01-02-2004

The turbine and compressor wheel are balanced as a unit. You would have to mark them. Even then I would look into having a turbo shop balance it. 170,000 RPM is as high as the compressor map goes for the 14B. If 2 oz's can make your car shake horridly at around 900 RPM (on the tires) imagine what being little off balance at 188 times that speed would do. :stick:

MATCHBX · 01-02-2004

I understand that Ryan. But what I was getting at was that if it is a 14b in GOOD condition, this obviously means it has minimal shaft play, does not use oil, spins freely and has had no foreign objects go thru it. With that being said, why would the original wheels of the good one be missing any weight? If so, it's not that GOOD of a 14b. I agree that it should be balanced but if it was good from the get go, a refreshening of the seals and bushings is not going to throw it out of balance.

BTW, what is the cost of balancing those wheels? Just out of curiousity.

**Halon** · 01-02-2004

well thanx everyone, i guess this seems like its a lil too much of a job for me, ill just run it till it dies, but thanx for the responces

dylan · 01-04-2004

I've got a 14b with ~33k miles on it. PM or email if you are interested.

john · 01-04-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by awd1dr@Jan 2 2004, 10:14 AM
So basically, if you find one that is used and in decent condition. You could rebuild it for about $200-250, price including rebuild kit (provided you could do the work yourself), and you'd have a nearly new one. Would that be acurate? Was I right in saying the rebuild kits run about $100? That's just what I thought I had seen on a site somewhere before. Do you guys have any links to sites that sell rebuild kits? I used to have one but I have no idea where it went.

If you get one that is in decent shape, why would you rebuild it? If he were to rebuild one he should get his rebuilt and save the $150 on another. I may have another lower return line laying around if anyone needs one.

MATCHBX · 01-04-2004

Because if you buy a used one that is supposedly in decent shape, you have no idea if there may be a problem with any of the seals (orings and such) until you bolt it on and try it. I have never found one that I've pulled apart that the orings weren't completely hardened from age and heat. Plus you also have the added satisfaction that you know what it looks like inside. Plus you have the reassurance that it will last for quite a while.

I mean, would you buy a low milage engine and just stuff it in your car without at least dropping the oilpan to see if it's ok? If you open it up, you might as well refresh the seals while you're in there. I think any engine rebuilder or car mechanic will back me up on this one. If it's used, make sure it's good enough to last for a while before you bolt it to your car.

**Halon** · 01-04-2004

thanx again for all the replies, but i think imma just drive the car easy like i always do, and once it kicks the bucket, ill prolly just be throwing in a pte 50trim. thanx

john · 01-04-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by awd1dr@Jan 4 2004, 07:42 PM
Because if you buy a used one that is supposedly in decent shape, you have no idea if there may be a problem with any of the seals (orings and such) until you bolt it on and try it. I have never found one that I've pulled apart that the orings weren't completely hardened from age and heat. Plus you also have the added satisfaction that you know what it looks like inside. Plus you have the reassurance that it will last for quite a while.

I mean, would you buy a low milage engine and just stuff it in your car without at least dropping the oilpan to see if it's ok? If you open it up, you might as well refresh the seals while you're in there. I think any engine rebuilder or car mechanic will back me up on this one. If it's used, make sure it's good enough to last for a while before you bolt it to your car.

I agree with you to some extent. Why would you buy another if you are planning on rebuilding it though? Why not use the one he has?

If I were buying a used engine, the first thing I would do is get a warranty from a junkyard or something. Yeah, I would drop the pan but I wouldn't rebuild it (pull the pistons, replace the rings, do a valve job, etc.) as long as it is out of the car. Why wouldn't I just rebuild the one I have instead of spending money on something I dont need. See my point now? You would just have another lying around. If your plans are to rebuild something and you have one needing a rebuild, why buy another? IMO just a waste of money.

I would stick with the turbo you have. Check it for shaft play and get a used one if nessecary. Dont assume the turbo is burning the oil though. Check the return line gaskets and see if they are leaking. Just a simple look under the car.

MATCHBX · 01-05-2004

I understand your points. I didn't mean that you rebuild the engine, I just said to refresh the gaskets (seals). It's much easier to do it when it's out.

And the reason why I say rebuild the used turbo (seals, not new wheels and such) is because if the old turbo that is burning oil is so bad that it's gonna take extra parts (more than just a seal kit) to rebuild it, then it would be easier to start with a unit that is in good shape where you would only have to put in minimal items (only seals).

I guess this comes down to symantics. Maybe I should've said that you should "reseal it" rather than saying "rebuild it."