Obama losing his own supporters...

[123abc]

Why do Obama nut swingers always compare him to Bush if Bush did so horrible?

[1QUICK4]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Choosing a war that was a choice as opposed to a war of necessity. (afganistan) and sinking shit loads of money into no bid contracts. Bush and Cheney were the worst thing to happen to the US since McDonalds.

Saddam had been fuckin with the UN inspectors for 10+ years. Bush Jr just did what his daddy and Clinton both half ass attempted to do. If either one of them had done their job then it would've never fell into Jr's lap. Was rushing in the best decision? No it most certainly was not. But you cant tell me there was no reason for ousting Saddam.

As far as Afganistan being a war of necessity. If Clinton had manned up and sent troops in years ago we might not have had 911 ever happen. And in turn we would not be there right now. But instead he decided to blindly throw munitions across the sea and hope the problem would go away.


On another note...

Tom, do you really think Bush was the 1st president to give no bid contracts? Or is he the only president that you heard Michael Moore bitching about them. Our goverment has been doing no-bid contracts since well before you or me or even your grandaddy were born. If you think otherwise you are extremely nieve.

[tpunx99GSX]

I do not eat at McDonalds in the first place, their food makes me feel like shit afterward.
McDonalds as a corperation is fine, i love what the Ronald McDonald Foundation does. And i realise that its the parents feeding them the fat that is the cause of the obesity in this nation. It was the first thing that came to mind.

Bush gave no Bid contracts to a company that is or was owned by Dick Cheney. We are not talking about giving jobs to friends. We are talking about giving jobs to a friend at outstanding costs to the american people. Its like having your CEO tell you that you need to hire someone at 10 bucks an hour and you give it to a buddy at $25/hr. Except its billions of dollars instead of a couple bucks. And its YOUR FUCKING MONEY. Did we have any transparency and actually see how much it was really costing us? NO.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by 1QUICK4

Saddam had been fuckin with the UN inspectors for 10+ years. Bush Jr just did what his daddy and Clinton both half ass attempted to do. If either one of them had done their job then it would've never fell into Jr's lap. Was rushing in the best decision? No it most certainly was not. But you cant tell me there was no reason for ousting Saddam.

As far as Afganistan being a war of necessity. If Clinton had manned up and sent troops in years ago we might not have had 911 ever happen. And in turn we would not be there right now. But instead he decided to blindly throw munitions across the sea and hope the problem would go away.


On another note...

Tom, do you really think Bush was the 1st president to give no bid contracts? Or is he the only president that you heard Michael Moore bitching about them. Our goverment has been doing no-bid contracts since well before you or me or even your grandaddy were born. If you think otherwise you are extremely nieve.

WE ARE NOT THE WORLD POLICE. Fix our shit at home before going into other countrys. if you say its making us safer, you are wrong. Going into afghanistan would be making us safer. Bush jr was a fucking half retarded, dont be nieve.

[Mwolf83]

On a lighter note. The title of this thread is kinda funny, cuz I don't think he'd be losing someone elses supporters.

[1QUICK4]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Bush gave no Bid contracts to a company that is or was owned by Dick Cheney. We are not talking about giving jobs to friends. We are talking about giving jobs to a friend at outstanding costs to the american people.

Like I said, it's been happening for ever. Even under Clinton and Regan and Carter and even FDR.

Here's an artical about CLINTON giving Haliburton NO BID CONTRACTS during the Bosnia and Kosovo campaign.
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/art...F446BEA7847%7D

It must be because Cheney is Clintons buddy right

I'll say it again Tom. If you think Bush is the only one to give no bid contract "attrocities" you are the Nieve one my friend

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

WE ARE NOT THE WORLD POLICE. Fix our shit at home before going into other countrys. if you say its making us safer, you are wrong. Going into afghanistan would be making us safer. Bush jr was a fucking half retarded, dont be nieve.

Unfortunatly we are the world police and have been for quite some time. Can you show me anywhere where I said it is making us safer?

As far as Afganistan being a war of necessity. If Clinton had manned up and sent troops in years ago we might not have had 911 ever happen. And in turn we would not be there right now. But instead he decided to blindly throw munitions across the sea and hope the problem would go away

[Kracka]

Unfortunately, the US is the world's police and realistically we need to be since our economy is dependent on so many other international economies and the majority of countries can't do what we can to stop the problems.

[mdost03]

Originally Posted by Kracka

Unfortunately, the US is the world's police and realistically we need to be since our economy is dependent on so many other international economies and the majority of countries can't do what we can to stop the problems.

[Matt D.]

This guy just described Tom: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/...ics/index.html

[rose0529]

Originally Posted by Matt D.

This guy just described Tom: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/...ics/index.html

OMG your alive!

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by Matt D.

This guy just described Tom: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/...ics/index.html

Great editorial that pretty much hit this issue dead-on.

[mdost03]

Originally Posted by Kracka

Great editorial that pretty much hit this issue dead-on.

X2, good read!

[Matt D.]

Funny, I post that link and Tom doesn't have a rebuttal.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by Matt D.

Funny, I post that link and Tom doesn't have a rebuttal.

Sorry i hadnt checked the site in the last couple days because my sons bday is tomorrow so we have been doing stuff for that.

The article is typical conservative twisting of words. Such as Obamas response to Ed Henrys question. tell me this, would you rather have Obama go off on every corporate failure such as the AIG, or would you rather have someone get all the facts before becoming outraged at people like AIG taking bonuses. Its much better to have all of the facts straight before throwing stones as opposed to having to apologize for a mistake in judgment. What would have happened if he had been outraged at AIG and it turned out that they actually hadnt taken the bonuses and that it was a complete miscommunication? Republicans would have jumped all over him like Ed Henry. I would rather have a president that gets all the facts before passing judgment then one that bombs anyone who supposedly does something bad. (yes that was a bush reference, go fuck yourself if you defend him)
Of course people will make mistakes, but as for Obama failing economics, No. The problem isnt that Obama Supporters such as myself are still caught up in the drama of a black president, its that EVERYONE has set the bar so high for a president that no matter what he does he will fail. Why is it that everyone keeps saying that hes trying to take on TOO MUCH. Since when did americans start becoming so pessimistic that we resort to saying things like Too much. When we had the American Revolution, what would have happened if americans such as yourselves had said The British are TOO Much. We would be complaining about a king not a president.
Healthcare, Education, Alternative fuels and technology are not something you want to skimp on. The fact that these industries have been failing on a catastrophic level because of underfunding is not something obama did. Its something that previous presidents did.
Healthcare - I have gone over this before and will go over it again. A government funded healthcare system IS NOT A BAD THING. People like myself who are currently out of a job not because of anything we did but because of a failure of the economy and businesses currently do not have insurance. Im lucky enough that my fiance is still working so my 1 year old son still has insurance under her. But if she were to lose her job and my son gets sick, If I were to get help i would be drowned in bills. The fact we havent gone to a socialised healthcare by now is just stupid.
Education - the US has one of the worst education systems in the world, its about time we started putting some money towards it.
Alternative fuels and technology - We need to start producing our own energy instead of going to china for batteries, Middle east for oil, and mexico for manufacturing, the US needs to start taking pride in creating something new that will drive this economy forward instead of looking for a something for nothing handout to wealth such as lotterys or pyramid schemes.

Please remember that obama has only been in office for 2 months, what did GWB do in his first two months?

[Halon]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

one that bombs anyone who supposedly does something bad. (yes that was a bush reference, go fuck yourself if you defend him)

Good point. Those that we went to war against were definitely some good folks that did nothing bad.

Also if you and your fiance are both laid off, there are programs already in place to help you in regards to health care (just an FYI for you to start looking into in case that does happen).

I personally am not a supporter of government ran health care. The current government ran system leaves a bit to be desired, and I'm a bit skeptical that they could do any better on a much larger scale. My girlfriend constantly goes on and on about it as she sees it first hand. Somehow it seems that far too often, the people who really need the help get the short end of the stick, and the ones who make out like bandits are those who have learned to work the system.

My .02 cents.

[mdost03]

tpunx, in the future, try to use some paragraphs in your posting. You are trying too hard to prove to us that the US education is shit. Your hurt my head trying to decipher it.

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Please remember that obama has only been in office for 2 months, what did GWB do in his first two months?

Not spend more money/pass spending bills that surpass every other US President in history combined?

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Healthcare - I have gone over this before and will go over it again. A government funded healthcare system IS NOT A BAD THING. People like myself who are currently out of a job not because of anything we did but because of a failure of the economy and businesses currently do not have insurance. Im lucky enough that my fiance is still working so my 1 year old son still has insurance under her. But if she were to lose her job and my son gets sick, If I were to get help i would be drowned in bills. The fact we havent gone to a socialised healthcare by now is just stupid.

In a perfect world, socialized health care may be a good thing. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. The health care will not be free, YOU (and many others in the US) will be paying for it through more and more taxes, which is just what we need in times of a shit economy right? I don't get why people believe health care is a "right".

Here is a link with articles pertaining why Socialized Health Care is not an answer (30 sec search on google):
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...ocialized.html

Canadian Health Care Issues
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_...ealthcare.html

"Basic economics tells us that if a commodity is offered at zero price, demand will increase, supply will drop, and a shortage will develop."

^Sounds awesome for people that NEED health care that are dying. Oh, but Joe Schmo walking in off the street needs to be checked out for a cold so you will have to wait.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by Halon

Good point. Those that we went to war against were definitely some good folks that did nothing bad.

The point is having the proper information prior to dropping bombs. The terrorists were from Afghanistan but yet we bombed Iraq? sounds like someone got their coordinates mixed up. Sure Saddam needed to be handled, but when you market a war as a war on terrorism you should get the terrorists. Saddam didnt attack us, he killed his own people. Which we took over that job at the drop of a hat. GG now we are the new saddam.
Want to cut the spending? Bring the troops back, all of them. I was watching Bill Maher the other night and he said something that i knew but didnt realize to the extent it was happening. We still have troops in Germany and Japan. Why do we have them there? (serious question) They are not at war, they dont need our help in any way shape or form? But yet we spend countless dollars keeping troops in something like 150+ countries. Bring 60% of them home and think about how much savings that would create.
The public only hears about troops going to Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Mexico. But thats only a small amount of our Empire.

In a perfect world, socialized health care may be a good thing. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. The health care will not be free, YOU (and many others in the US) will be paying for it through more and more taxes, which is just what we need in times of a shit economy right? I don't get why people believe health care is a "right".

Its a small price to pay to the American public to be assured that you will be able to get care in times of sickness. As long as we appoint leaders that can put their own greed aside for the betterment of society as a whole, we can create a system that is a hybrid of a full socialized health care system. Such as making companies pay for their employees health care, and thus putting less stress on the government funds. Government would only pay for the unemployed peoples health care. We would spend money in Preventative health care so that it will cut more costly procedures that went untreated.
This is NOT new, Countries have done this for years and are doing just fine. On the Canada health care link, I really don't think its relevant because like all stories they have two sides, i.e. Matt D's link. You get one person who decides he doesn't like something so they make a website dedicated to it. But the general consensus is that socialized health care does work.
http://www.gadling.com/media/2007/07...reworldbig.jpg Here are the countries that currently have universal health care. notice what countries do not have it.... Yes we are grouped with third world countries on this one.

[tpunx99GSX]

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/...th-care-part-i
Like i said, there is always a rebuttal site.
"10. This all sounds great -- but the taxes to cover it are just unaffordable. And besides, isn't the system in bad financial shape?
False. On one hand, our annual Canadian tax bite runs about 10% higher than our U.S. taxes did. On the other, we're not paying out the equivalent of two new car payments every month to keep the family insured here. When you balance out the difference, we're actually money ahead. When you factor in the greatly increased social stability that follows when everybody's getting their necessary health care, the impact on our quality of life becomes even more signficant.

And True -- but only because this is a universal truth that we need to make our peace with. Yes, the provincial plans are always struggling. So is every single publicly-funded health care system in the world, including the VA and Medicare. There's always tension between what the users of the system want, and what the taxpayers are willing to pay. The balance of power ebbs and flows between them; but no matter where it lies at any given moment, at least one of the pair is always going to be at least somewhat unhappy.

But, as many of us know all too well, there's also constant tension between what patients want and what private insurers are willing to pay. At least when it's in government hands, we can demand some accountability. And my experience in Canada has convinced me that this accountability is what makes all the difference between the two systems."

[Halon]

We have troops located all over the world. I spent a year in Japan. We don't have troops over there all geared up at "camps" sitting in tents, ready to engage the Japs at the drop of a dime (kinda how I took your comment). We have bases there, just like we have them here. None hostile bases, there to help keep an eye on other parts far away from home. Also our presence in Japan has something to do with a treaty signed after WW2 keeping them from having a large military, and we will be there instead. I don't see it as a bad thing. Just don't think of our Japan bases as camps prepped for action. They are bases, where we are free to own cars, not wearing cammies, free to do as we want, they are "for the most part" free to come on the bases. Part of the community like they are here. Or maybe I just understood you wrong.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by Halon

We have troops located all over the world. I spent a year in Japan. We don't have troops over there all geared up at "camps" sitting in tents, ready to engage the Japs at the drop of a dime (kinda how I took your comment). We have bases there, just like we have them here. None hostile bases, there to help keep an eye on other parts far away from home. Also our presence in Japan has something to do with a treaty signed after WW2 keeping them from having a large military, and we will be there instead. I don't see it as a bad thing. Just don't think of our Japan bases as camps prepped for action. They are bases, where we are free to own cars, not wearing cammies, free to do as we want, they are "for the most part" free to come on the bases. Part of the community like they are here. Or maybe I just understood you wrong.

Thank you for the clarification. Being that I am not in the military I did not know what went on in these countries.