Bastard 20G?

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Originally Posted by CRAIG

So your saying someone could run 30+ psi on stock headbolts and be ok as long as its on a good tune? I agree with the headgasket not having to be anything more than a stock Mitsu since its just like a fuse in my opinion. But not having headbolts? Don't know about that one.

Yes, go search on another board about the strength of stock head bolts. 30+psi has and is being run by people with stock 6-bolt head bolts. The 7-bolt ones are 1mm smaller and torque to yield, so they are much weaker and can't handle as much, but people regularly run in the high 20s with them also. Been there done that. I think 1VicousGSx also ran his stocker 7-bolt head bolts into the mid/high 20s.

Originally Posted by howslowcanyougo

According to this same thread, it looks like 4 lbs more per minute on the Evo3, is 40 + 25 for the new FMIC install = 65 HP gain!

Don't expect a huge gain. A FMIC will allow you to run higher boost, which equals more HP. At the same boost level, putting a FMIC on probably won't gain you 25whp, unless you were pushing the old sidemount past the edge of safety and knocking alot. And yes the EVO 3 16G does flow more air, but you will probably have to run more boost to get more of that air. For example, if it flows 4 lbs/min more, then if you run at only 18psi you might only see a gain of 1-2 lb/min over a Big 16G. The guys making alot of power out the EVO 16Gs are running high high boost and it can hold medium high boost longer than the olders 16G could maintain it. The EVO 16G is a great turbo though, it kicks the ass of some of the smaller GT turbos that some of the tooners vendors tried to hype up last year.

Originally Posted by Carlos

Alpine got ~319hp to the wheels last year on his with a FMIC and dyno tuning on race gas. I wouldn't expect that out of your car as it is an auto. You would have to be the second person who made 400hp on an evo 16g to get ~320 to the wheels.

~320 to the wheels on with an auto on race gas is probably possible with the EVO 16G and a good supporting cast. 319whp is a low number for even a normal 16G on race gas. I have had cars make close to 300whp on pump gas with the older Big 16Gs and a good setup. And 335+whp on race gas and moderate boost is common on the older small and big 16Gs. It is so rare around here though to see a 16G with a good setup and have the owner want to try to push it on race that I don't know what they are really capable of. Most of the guys who were pushing the 16Gs hard, have moved onto big turbo setups and it seems like everyone around here wants to start out with a 61mm turbo nowdays, even if they don't have a single part to support it.

[howslowcanyougo]

Hey,

Many Thanks for the great insights Shane!

Right or wrong, I'm going just take the easy way out and get the one I wanted to begin with, that "Bastard 20G" with TB06 wheel. It's middle of the road, a very easy swap out for a n00b like me, is water cooled and still will flow @ 44lbs. This should hold me over just fine while I learn more, and can buy other support for the "Big Boy" someday.

Thanks to ALL of you for all the great feedback!

[TheBlizzard]

Originally Posted by ecoli

Yes, go search on another board about the strength of stock head bolts. 30+psi has and is being run by people with stock 6-bolt head bolts. The 7-bolt ones are 1mm smaller and torque to yield, so they are much weaker and can't handle as much, but people regularly run in the high 20s with them also. Been there done that. I think 1VicousGSx also ran his stocker 7-bolt head bolts into the mid/high 20s.

I kinda thought that it would be obvious I was talking about a 2G since thats the car in question in the thread isn't it? Either way just because some people have done it doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Nash ran 40lbs of boost on a stock bottom end, did it blow up? No. Is it in somebodies best interest to do that? Probably not.

[john]

Originally Posted by ecoli

~320 to the wheels on with an auto on race gas is probably possible with the EVO 16G and a good supporting cast. 319whp is a low number for even a normal 16G on race gas. I have had cars make close to 300whp on pump gas with the older Big 16Gs and a good setup. And 335+whp on race gas and moderate boost is common on the older small and big 16Gs. It is so rare around here though to see a 16G with a good setup and have the owner want to try to push it on race that I don't know what they are really capable of. Most of the guys who were pushing the 16Gs hard, have moved onto big turbo setups and it seems like everyone around here wants to start out with a 61mm turbo nowdays, even if they don't have a single part to support it.

Anything is possible if you think about it. Likely, probly not without nitrous. He would have to be pushing a good 400hp to the crank to make that power in an auto. Let say a manual car for example loses roughly 20% to the wheels on the dyno. If a car made 400 crank Hp it would make 320 to the wheels (400x.8=320). Oviously an auto looses more through the drivetrain. I drove an auto spider a year ago and it felt like the old integra was quicker. Felt like a NT. Looking at the tooners dyno list, the highest on the list for a 16g is a big 16g making 348 to the wheels on a 99gsx at AMS. Here is the setup on the car:

Bolt-On Mods:
SHEP Built RACE Tranny (w/ 4 spider center diff), Ported EVO III 16G, DSM Link V2, SBR 2G FMIC kit w/ short rout piping, ACT 2600, Rewired Walbro 255HP, PTE 880cc Injectors, Custom Cold Air Intake w/ Injen intake pipe, 1G 60mm Throttle Body and Intake Manifold, HKS SSQ BOV, Hallman EVO Boost Controller, SBR Cast Exhaust Manifold, 3" Tubular o2 housing, Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel, Greddy External Oil Cooler, 3" turbo back exhaust with cat, Ported Intake Manifold, Full Throttle AFPR, Fluidyne Radiator w/ slimline 12" fan, Auto Meter Ultra Lite Boost Gauge, Greddy 52mm EGT Gauge, NGK BPR7ES Plugs, Taylor Race Wires, Greddy TT

Engine Internals:
Built 6-Bolt, Pauter Billet Chromoly X-beam rods, JE .020 9:1 pistons, BJ's Stage 5 Ported Head, Crower Titanium Valve Retainers, Crower Valve Springs, HKS 272's, 1mm Oversized Stainless Valves, Revised Lifters, Cometic Steel Head Gasket, ARP Head Studs

I would say this guy has a pretty good 16g setup. He ran 12.0. Would be hard to accomplish with a stock motor and an auto... Looks like he has the other 20g anyhow.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Drivetrain loss is more like 10% for a manual. Built motors don't make much if any more power than stock motors. There isn't that much data on that tuners list either. Here is a small 16G making 350whp from ages ago and Josh Wingell is trapping 118mph with his EVO 16G in a 2G, which has to be close to 400whp in a car of that weight. I made almost 300whp on a 14B car with a intake, exhaust and boost controller. I don't see high 300s out of a manual and low 300s out of an auto being out of the question for an EVO 3 16G equipped car with some decent mods and race gas to back it up.