beaterX project thread

[turbotalon1g]

Good work mane!

[Murlo26]

Pretty sure the sleeves are iron on the 4b11.

[89_Colt_GT]

So I was expecting a beater not a Evo X lol

[Speedfreak]

I'd lean toward tune/detonation(caused by bad gas? maybe, but that tune is too on the edge IMO).. Then you can say those circumstances lead to the other theories as well(as a secondary effect).

I wouldn't use that head as is. Needs to be decked or cleaned up however possible(if possible). Those pits will make your tuning window smaller/attract the possibility of detonation.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Did any of the other pistons look all detonation ravaged like #1? Wonder if there was something going on with that injector or just the bad Duluth gas.

Originally Posted by scheides

Just talked to Shawn (simulatedwood) and he's leaning towards TTP's theory where the rings are gapped to tightly from the factory. Running good (high) timing for extended periods causes EGTs to get high and the pistons/rings fully fully expand causing the cyl wear that can be seen on all cylinders.

Higher timing lower EGTs. The scoring on the other cylinder is a little weird. Question is whether the damage was causes by parts from #1 getting into the others, the tight gap theory or something else. Were the spark plugs on the other 3 cylinders eaten up from det or look like something hit them?

[scheides]

Originally Posted by ecoli

Did any of the other pistons look all detonation ravaged like #1? Wonder if there was something going on with that injector or just the bad Duluth gas.



Higher timing lower EGTs. The scoring on the other cylinder is a little weird. Question is whether the damage was causes by parts from #1 getting into the others, the tight gap theory or something else. Were the spark plugs on the other 3 cylinders eaten up from det or look like something hit them?

Yea I'm kinda contemplating getting the injectors flow tested but the rest of the pistons looked fine aside from the scoring and the one rough spot on #4.

All spark plugs looked fine and the other three combustion chambers on the head look great. I'll take closer pics when I dissassemble the sensors/tstat housing/exhaust manifold off of the head; it's obviously going to have to get looked at.

[TalonFiero]

Finally, this thread is a proper project thread now!

Good work Scheides and Kody. I'll be there to help you put it back together.

[Pushit2.0]

If this was a tight ring gap problem there would only be cylinder wall scoring, I see piston damage from the top of the piston to the top ring land and bellow. This looks like a case of to much timing for the boost/octane level for your setup.

~John

[GG_9_SE]

The only piston that looked like it didn't have any damage at all was #3. #1 was fucked, #2 had some slight pitting/ gouges on top, and #4 had a bur on the side the scratched the intake side of the cylinder wall. The only marks on the head though were on the #1 dome, and just barely into the valve seat. Hopefully you won't have to touch the head, but who knows. Deffinatly lemme know when its going back together!

[Pushit2.0]

I would use a TIG welder to smooth out the pitting in the head. Then deck it, keeping the heat as low as possible and keeping the over all head temp low so you do not have issues with the valve seats.

~John

[scheides]

Sorry this is gonna be kinda long-winded, tons of things up in the air right now.

So even last week I started putting the feelers out to national and local shops to see who was busy, who had parts, who could do what and end of the day I am keeping the rebuild process local. We are truely blessed to have shops like DB Performance and Modern Automotive Performance nearby and I plan to use them to the fullest. Both shops have graciously held out their hand and it makes it tough to try and decide who to have do what. Ultimately my timeline and my wallet are going to be boss but if I had a little more of each I wouldn't bat an eye to drop the entire lot off at either shop and let them do it all.

Everything continues to be on backorder, but a few things are coming through: MAP has some of their new x-beam rods ready to rock. I may skip the GSC S2's in favor of Kelford 214-b's since they're in stock, but neither GSC nor Kelford beehive valvesprings are available until the end of november, so I am leaning towards Supertech duals. I will hold off on the cam decision for a few weeks while the motor is getting rebuilt and make the decision later.

MAP has all their machine shop tooling in-house and goddamn are they REALLY eager to use it! They seem to have a steady flow of motors going through so they're not a bad choice. DB thinks they can turn around the motor pretty quick too so really its anyone's guess at this point as I have full confidence in both's ability to produce a strong, reliable shortblock. I'm hoping we can stay away from political 'favorite shop' games and just keep nose to grindstone here as I probably need the help of both shops to get everything done in the timeframe I want: 2.5 weeks.


When I bought my house about 5 years ago my dad made me the most epic workbench ever. Thanks dad, putting it to good use now



So looking at the head, the damage is not nearly as bad as I remember. As long as there isn't damage to the seat itself like John suggested a few passes with a TIG with some skilled hands and then a nice deck job should do the trick. If there is any damage inside we'll just have to deal with it and go from there. I'd love a MAP stg4 port job on it but the is gonna be tough to justify the $$ and their porting department is like 6 weeks out which TOTALLY blows my timeline.

Here's some more pics of the head, exhaust ports (looking for particle damage) cyls 1-4:









And the CC's, cyl's 1-4:









Also examined the turbine wheel for damage, only thing I could find is a *slight* ding in the turbine wheel, but not sure if it is really anything (I've run worse turbos for years on DSMs).






So yea, bought some beefy rubbermaid totes to transport the block and head in, we'll see where things end up over the next few weeks but I am PUMPED as it looks like this thing will be coming together before too terribly long!

[Murlo26]

Looking good man! I'm excited to see your build coming along so quick, 2.5 weeks, holy shit! lol. That is crazy fast, I will be very impressed if you get it all back together by then, good luck

[scheides]

Originally Posted by Murlo26

Looking good man! I'm excited to see your build coming along so quick, 2.5 weeks, holy shit! lol. That is crazy fast, I will be very impressed if you get it all back together by then, good luck

It is ambitious and maybe overstated; gunning to have the shortblock back by friday 11/19 so I can put the block/trans back in, bolt up accessories and turbo and then drop the head on as time allows soon thereafter (and make final cam decision accordingly).

[Murlo26]

Originally Posted by scheides

It is ambitious and maybe overstated; gunning to have the shortblock back by friday 11/19 so I can put the block/trans back in, bolt up accessories and turbo and then drop the head on as time allows soon thereafter (and make final cam decision accordingly).

Ambitious, sure..but with your resources and skills and desire I have no doubt you could get it done!

I think the kelfords are great for sure, but personally I'd vote wait it out for the GSC s2's But you have rode in Zwinger's car and mine so you know how they both feel more or less and they are close in aggressiveness.

[mlomker]

Originally Posted by Murlo26

with your resources and skills and desire I have no doubt you could get it done!

It's a timely break-down. The racing season is over.

[DoughtCom]

You need help, I'm there. I'll try to keep an eye on this thread too.

[awd-drifter]

good luck scheides! hopefully everything goes through man.

[Halon]

Sorry to hear about the headache, but looks like you're keeping your head on straight and just figuring out how to move forward, which is great.

I also hear you on the whole "which shop to pick" ordeal. I'm in the same boat on mine where we have great local shops like DB, MAP, and Primo, and I'm sure they are all mature enough to not hold grudges about choosing one or the other for things. I plan on using as much local shop support as possible for my build, and to divy it up across the board as they are all great!! So I wouldn't worry about that at all if I were you. You have to do what works best for you in the end, and both DB and MAP have pretty solid motor builds running around so they are both completely capable beyond a doubt in my eyes.

Good luck, and let me know if you need a hand as I'm more than willing to get greasy just like I did with brownman and Kerry recently!

[scheides]

Ok, big update time but no pics sorry; purely a planning session.

First off I will be sending the injectors off to Deatschwerks to be inspected/flow tested purely out of curiosity. They have been insanely gracious on this and I was very careful when I approached them about it. I just want to try and get to the bottom of what happened and fix it so it doesn't happen again.

Next, the head. I dropped it off last week at DB Performance in an effort to get it fixed effectively and quickly. I was hoping for a quick weld job on the CC, a decking, and back on the car with a new set of valvesprings and cams......Ugh this was sobering news today on top of everything but the head has several bent valves and will need to be completely gone through to fix it. The chunk of ring must have had its way with this thing like Hotdog on Murlo. :P Anyways it is going to get fixed and stamped with a nice little DB Performance performance package: +1mm valves, 5-angle valvejob, basic porting, and either Cosworth single or Supertech dual valvesprings. This all will be topped off with Kelford 214-b's (readily available) or GSC S2's (not available until very end of November). I really want the S2's but the kelfords are well-proven cams as well. I will decide as things progress. Plagued with backorder stuff here.


Also a week ago I dropped off the shortblock at MAP. They are going to clean it up, machine it with an official 4b11t torque plate, and then outfit it with a set of their new x-beam rods (ooh lala) with some pimp JE pistons (with all the trimmings). They're confident about getting it done quickly so I jumped on the opportunity. The torque plate comes in tomorrow and all hell will break loose from there. I explored everything from 2.5L strokers to sleeved race blocks to a LS9 swap (ok just kidding) and this simple, vanilla setup seemed to be best for me.

side note: Normally I recommend people do not mix/match different parts and different shops but with the tallent we have local and being good friends with a lot of these guys it is honestly hard to choose and even harder to turn anyone down as I really do trust everyone I'm working with on this project. I know I've already stepped on a few toes but end of the day decisions gotta get made and I am the one to do it (well, and Anna ).

So yea, there's a few other small things going on with the project but I'll post pics as things happen. For now the car is sitting and I haven't touched it in over a week. Boo. Thanks for reading!

[mlomker]

Originally Posted by scheides

either Cosworth single or Supertech dual valvesprings.

Not sure if DB still has my broken head lying around but the Cosworth singles that I bought could still be in it. They were busy and I didn't push them to remove them for me.