Ported/Aftermarket TB discussion - Page 2

**Murlo26** · 02-22-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Have you heard of any longevity issues with them? I know I heard one report of a failure but that's about it.

It certainly is a tough decision, but evo8/9/X there's kinda a few combos to go with (and I cannot decide what I want!)

Option1: Ported stock manifold, ported stock TB
Option2: Ported stock manifold, modified to 3" inlet, boomba 75mmTB, fancy 3" LICP, 3" FMIC outlet
Option3: aftermarket intake manifold w/ stock or boomba TB.

Man, we have the makings of a real test here

A very very expensive test....yikes.

I plan to go with the ported stocker and ported stock intake mani myself. I am struggling on justifying the rev3 over the rev2 as Clipse on evoxforums saw some very impressive gains with the ported stocker and rev 2 MAP mani.

However on a black I bet it would be worth it for the extra 300/400 bucks.

Scheides, 3" IC piping stuff just isn't necessary i don't think...even people on like 800whp setups I think see very minimal gains and sometimes just loses down low.

**scheides** · 02-22-2011

Yup just saying, the idea of doing it 'all the way' makes sense if you're gonna do the full 3" setup on the IM inlet and everything. IF this ever happens on my car, it'll be down the road. I will almost certainly do the ported stock IM/TB combo first, it is just too good bang/buck to not try. Before/after on the dyno? Maybe

After that, I'd consider doing the same thing again if I upgraded to the full 3" setup. God knows I'd surely piss a ton of people off by publishing the results, so who knows. Someone else is welcome to try it though

Can you link to those gains that Clipse saw on evoxforums? I remember seeing that and kinda not really believing it.

**Murlo26** · 02-22-2011

http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/sho...ev+mani&page=5

MAP rev 2 mani and huge ass 1/2" intake spacer.

**Goat Blower** · 02-22-2011

A 75mm is way overkill, I learned that the hard way on my GSX, I never could get it to idle right even after converting it to use DSM shaft seals. Seeing that others were in the 9's on stock TB's, I would never go back to some crazy one like that unless I was building a 1000whp track car. I wouldn't go any bigger than a bored out stocker on a street car.

**goodhart** · 02-22-2011

How big of gains are actually seen on the dyno from these IM and TB mods? I thought on Kracka's IX it was very minimal for the price paid?

**Murlo26** · 02-22-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodhart

How big of gains are actually seen on the dyno from these IM and TB mods? I thought on Kracka's IX it was very minimal for the price paid?

Not sure on Kracka's car, but I personally wouldn't do this on a stock turbo car.

On an FP/CBRD turbo car it would probably be worth it.

Also, its really the last mods you can do on some cars before more power can only come from a bigger turbo.

edit: but the link I showed above, the guy showed 20whp/20wtq on average from the MAP rev 2 and a big ass teflon spacer.

polishmafia · 02-22-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Oh the X is 58mm stock? Boo nelly! Even worse than I thought. Good info.

6G72 3.0 (my car) stock size is 60mm.
6g74 3.5 stock size is 65mm.

In case anyone was wondering. :P

DSM_421 · 02-22-2011

^ lol!

**scheides** · 02-22-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

A 75mm is way overkill, I learned that the hard way on my GSX, I never could get it to idle right even after converting it to use DSM shaft seals. Seeing that others were in the 9's on stock TB's, I would never go back to some crazy one like that unless I was building a 1000whp track car. I wouldn't go any bigger than a bored out stocker on a street car.

On a DSM or evo 8/9 that use a BISS and ISC, I totally agree. On an evoX, the only form of idle control is the actuation of the butterfly, so these bigger TB's are actually very very driveable. Lomker has had one on his car for over a year now? It idles like a dream.

**scheides** · 02-22-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

Not sure on Kracka's car, but I personally wouldn't do this on a stock turbo car.

On an FP/CBRD turbo car it would probably be worth it.

I think 20whp for the bulk of the powerband on an aftermarket, stock-frame turbo would be what I would hope for, but WITH the TB, not just the IM (that makes no sense to me).

On a stock turbo car, peak power may not be affected much but I'd bet that the powerband would be improved similar to this test that was published a few weeks ago:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-d...dyno-test.html

**Halon** · 02-22-2011

I also don't understand the appeal of such a large TB. A 64mm I can understand, a 75 seems a bit overkill for the amount of power 99% of us ever plan to make.

But again, I don't know much about Evo X's. It was mentioned larger TB's are good because idle control is done by opening the butterfly. Why does that make idle control easier? In my hollow mind, I'd think a larger butterfly would make idle more trickyas you're "gain" has essentially gone up. With a much larger opening, with every little change in butterfly angle, the percentage of difference in quantity of air making it past would be increased quite a bit. So your resolution wouldn't be as good anymore. Changing the butterfly by 1* on a 58mm vs. a 75mm is quite a difference in air quantity.

Again, just how my thinking works in my mind. Not that I'm right or wrong, i just find it interesting that a much larger TB would really offer better idle control simply because it's larger.

DSM_421 · 02-22-2011

I'm assuming the ECU just computes the airflow off the percentage that the butterfly is open? But then again you would need to compensate for the larger surface area, so I'm wondering how that works on Xs as well.

**Murlo26** · 02-22-2011

I think Scheides was saying that a 75mm TB on the X has better idle control than on an 8/9 or DSM because it uses the butterfly valve. Not that going to a giant TB makes it have a better idle.

**Halon** · 02-22-2011

And if that's the case, then I still don't understand why anyone on here would really want a 75mm TB. I'd think a stock 58mm would be plenty for most, and a 64mm upgrade may be a little bit reasonable, but 75mm seems like a waste of a mod.

Again, just my opinion

**Murlo26** · 02-22-2011

I am not arguing with that at all. I already said the 64mm one seems plenty for anyone.

**Halon** · 02-22-2011

High 5.

**scheides** · 02-22-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

I think Scheides was saying that a 75mm TB on the X has better idle control than on an 8/9 or DSM because it uses the butterfly valve. Not that going to a giant TB makes it have a better idle.

This. All I was saying was that the idle control on the X is a lot better than the dsm & evo8/9 so running a bigger TB (or bigger cams) is less of a problem for driveability.

At what point the 75mm is actually going to be 'needed' or outperform a 64mm (and with what intake manifold behind it) is what I'd really like to know.

**Goat Blower** · 02-22-2011

Besides, you would probably want 3" piping to go with a 75mm TB, which once again is overkill for most everyone. It looked cooler though.

DSM_421 · 02-22-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

Besides, you would probably want 3" piping to go with a 75mm TB, which once again is overkill for most everyone. It looked cooler though.

Lol I bet, I've always had 2.5" piping but I bet 3" would look bad-ass as hell under the hood.

311evo · 02-22-2011

I think I saw a test on evolutionm where they gained around 15whp switching from a oem TB to a Boomba. (was on a Magnus intake mani for both tests)

And IIRC, they did a full 3" IC pipe conversion after that and actually ended up losing power or staying the same. not sure exactly.