Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo

[sleepydsm]

hahaha.

I kinda want a Holset just to really see if its any good. If it sucks, I sell the bitch and get what was proven all along, an FP turbo.

[Halon]

What does #2 have to do with Holset's? BW's are a different animal.

[sleepydsm]

Originally Posted by Halon

What does #2 have to do with Holset's? BW's are a different animal.

I think it had some to do with Bullseye selling a bolt on housing for them.

[wheelhop]

It's to clear the air about what BEP makes and what BEP sells. Since they are different things, you can't exactly get b!tchy at BEP if a garrett fails. You get irrate with the turbo manufacturer. Considering that Brent Rau buys from BEP, there must be some goodness there. Somehow they manage to know what they are doing.

Many have yelled that the bep housing is a restriction and shouldn't be used because 50000more hp was made with a garrett turbine housing. The same can be said with any bolton housing. And for one to yell about his loss in power means that said person didn't choose his turbo properly. The bep housing is a specific piece and it takes TWO things, the turbine wheel AND the turbine housing, to make a turbocharger turbine. The flow is based on both. A turbine wheel should be used to determine flow, because if you know a charger, you know that a turbine housing TWEEKS flow and spool. It is not the chief dictator of it. If you have a t3 stage 5 turbine wheel and you chose a bep turbine housing because you want to have sub 4500rpm spool speed then why yell about the loss in flow? The stage 5 wheel is just that kind of animal. You cant get the flow out of it with out the lag.

Good thing about the holset is that thier turbine aerodynamics is drastically improved. The hx35 turbine wheel is about as big as the t3 stage 5 turbine wheel. And in the bep turbine housing, it spools to 20+ psi before 3600rpms. And spools to 20+ psi before 4K typically with a turbine housing that lets it flow enough for 600whp. . . BEP chose well. And their turbine housing with the stock hx35 turbine wheel matches well for the 52lb/min hx35 compressor.

Now the small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel has output over 650whp with the large hx40 compressor, so you know that the turbine housing isn't a choke for the hx40 turbine wheel either.

[Super Bleeder!!]

Pretty sure Rau is sponsored by BW, so he likely doesnt pay for shit as far as turbos go.

Are there any hx35/40 cars out there trapping 145mph or higher?

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!

Pretty sure Rau is sponsored by BW, so he likely doesnt pay for shit as far as turbos go.

Are there any hx35/40 cars out there trapping 145mph or higher?

How about 150+..

[wheelhop]

Pretty sure Rau is sponsored by BW, so he likely doesnt pay for shit as far as turbos go.

Buy is the wrong word. I should have said that apparently Brent Rau sees eye to eye with BEP on turbos. Kiggly runs a BEP Borg-Warner turbo as well.

If I'm willing to accept the lag of a ball bearing gt35r hotside with a compressor capable of pushing a 2700lb car to 154mph, i'd get the larger .70a/r bep turbine housing with the hx40. In the mean time the smaller housing gives me spool about 500rpms faster than that gt35r variant in an single scroll housing and has done over 650whp:



It spools faster than the gt35r since as you can see, the power band looks pretty much the same as the comparison turbo from which directly swapped on the dyno. That comparison turbo was the gt3076r. And that was all he could get out of the gt30r. How much more could the hx40 do with one of the larger turbine housing options.

Now I agree that trap speed is a better indicator of hp, when you know the race weight. . . Are you looking to compare the garrett or other similar flowing turbine counterpart to the hx35/40? Since these ARE real turbochargers . There are similarly flowing turbos between brands but drastically different spool speeds. Airflow is airflow. Efficiency is efficiency.

[Halon]

I'm aware they run BW turbos, but I'd think any credit for the performance of a BW turbo belongs to BW, not the middle man (BEP).

Do the fellows you mentioned use a BEP housing on their BW turbos? Did they get their turbos from BEP?

[wheelhop]

Of course the credit goes to BW. Of course they don't use a BEP housing. Same with the V-trim. "Credit" goes to garrett. Who has drastically improved with the gt line. . .

Of course the BEP housing works well with the hx35. Of course the BEP housing works well with the hx40.

Again,

I should have said that apparently Brent Rau sees eye to eye with BEP on turbos.

BEP knows turbos well. And you don't have to buy their turbine housing. Earlier in this thread, holset was looked down on because BEP was attached to holsets on DSMs. Isn't the point clear? A turbine housing may do poorly with one turbine wheel and do well with another. Is that more clear? I got my holset from ebay from a cummins guy upgrading his truck. I guess that makes my turbo better than buying it from BEP. Can't complain about the turbine housing, because my turbo spools as fast as the 16g that was installed before and flows 3-4lb/min more at the same boost through out the rev range. Hol-sex

[Halon]

Originally Posted by wheelhop

Kiggly runs a BEP Borg-Warner turbo as well...

holset was looked down on because BEP was attached to holsets on DSMs...

To me it appears you are attaching BEP to BW in the same manner.

I just don't see the relevance when comparing a Holset to a BW simply because one company makes aftermarket housings for both.

[Super Bleeder!!]

Wheelhop, do you work for BEP?

[wheelhop]

No. Do you work for FP? I'm eliminating my BEP turbine housing this season for a divided runner manifold with the stock holset turbine housing. I would like to see what it does. So far I'm happy that the turbo has done what a 20g can do. I'd like to see how much more flow per psi I can extract. . .

Originally Posted by Halon

To me it appears you are attaching BEP to BW in the same manner.



I just don't see the relevance when comparing a Holset to a BW simply because one company makes aftermarket housings for both.

OK ??? So you're getting it. I'm using the same attachment to BW. But we don't look down on BW do we, though the attachment is the same, correct?

I'm saying Holset, BW and garrett are the same thing: turbo brands sold by a vendor that had poor success with garrett turbos. ???

WTF would you all do if BEP started selling gt turbos? Regardless, the hx40 spools as fast as the gt3076r and has at least 100whp more potential. The hx40 spools faster than the gt35r and flows at least the same perhaps a little more. BEP or not.

I just don't want to see this sh!t abotu holsets are "bad seads" because they are BEP turbos. BEP can be lousy or not. That doesn't affect the performance of BW turbos, Holset turbos, or Garrett turbos. Their housings may clamp up one turbine wheel but what does that have to do with another? Different aerodynamic tech is involved. But I CAN see someone avoiding holset turbos because they want a bolt on and the only option is the bep turbine housing and after hearing the first part of this thread I wouldn't blame them. But as I mentioned, the information was by guys that don't really know anything about holset turbos in bep housings. . .

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!

Wheelhop, do you work for BEP?

Wheelhop, are you best friends with BEP?

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Does the HX40 make more power and spool faster than an SC61? How much do they cost? Or is an HX35/HX40 hybrid a closer comparision? Or is the HX40 too small?

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by wheelhop

No. Do you work for FP?

LOL, I see you're getting the hang of this board.

[Halon]

Originally Posted by wheelhop

I'm using the same attachment to BW. But we don't look down on BW do we, though the attachment is the same, correct?

I didn't compare a holset to a BW. I'm saying they are the same thing: turbo brands sold by a vendor that had poor success with garrett turbos. ???

I don't look down on either of them. Never once did I say I was against either of them.

I just don't think the success/failure of one turbo is a valid arguement for judging the success/failure of a completely different turbo designed by completely different companies (ie: Holset's are good because so and so run BW's). That's all I'm saying. Run what you want.

[wheelhop]

YESS!!! thank you! You more than get it!

Originally Posted by ecoli

Does the HX40 make more power and spool faster than an SC61? How much do they cost? Or is an HX35/HX40 hybrid a closer comparision? Or is the HX40 too small?

Well, the .63 a/r scm 61 with the t350 turbine wheel spool spools about 400rpms faster (based on my experience) as the 60mm compressor hx40 in the BEP .55 a/r turbine housing. You see what the hx40 in the .55a/r turbine housing can do. What cam the scm6152 do?

The scm6176 is a better choice to match that power level, no doubt. But the spool speed is several hundred rpms later than the scm6152.

The the scm61 has the 56 trim gt35r compressor map. great compressor, but the 69lb/min hx40 pro compressor hasn't even been very hard pushed yet.

LOL, this is the second time he's done that.

[Halon]

I give up.

[wheelhop]

Spoon feeding again:

"Holset turbos suck because bep sold a garrett turbo that sucks."

Originally Posted by Halon

I just don't think the success/failure of one turbo is a valid arguement for judging the success/failure of a completely different turbo designed by completely different companies (ie: Holset's are good because so and so run BW's). That's all I'm saying. Run what you want.

I_just_don't_want_someone_to_think_that_holsets_su ck_because_BEP_sold_them_or_because_for_a_bolt_on_ you_have_to_use_the_bep_housing. BEP doesn't build holsets and holsets work well in the bep housing. Simple.

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

Poop-in-Your-Eye Power turbos!