Bastard 20G? - Page 2

EclipseGST · 06-20-2005

30-31" FMIC will fit fine on a 2g. You probably wont need to take out the bumper beam across the front seeing its only 7" high. You will need to shave quite a bit off the back of the bumper cover to get it to go back on right but nothing major. My FMIC is 30.5x12x3.5 and all I had to do is remove the bumper beam and cut the bumper cover a little. Really wasnt all that big of a deal. Short route piping was easy to fab up and everything went together good. Shouldnt be too difficult for you. Good luck with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by howslowcanyougo

Just gotta figure out how to properly block off those water lines now?

Whenever Mike gets out of the hospital you might want to talk to him about welding them shut for ya. If your a good welder or know someone that is then that would work too.

howslowcanyougo · 06-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by EclipseGST

30-31" FMIC will fit fine on a 2g. You probably wont need to take out the bumper beam across the front seeing its only 7" high. You will need to shave quite a bit off the back of the bumper cover to get it to go back on right but nothing major. My FMIC is 30.5x12x3.5 and all I had to do is remove the bumper beam and cut the bumper cover a little. Really wasnt all that big of a deal. Short route piping was easy to fab up and everything went together good. Shouldnt be too difficult for you. Good luck with it.

Whenever Mike gets out of the hospital you might want to talk to him about welding them shut for ya. If your a good welder or know someone that is then that would work too.

Thanks much for the great tips man, as still just a n00b, I need all the help I can get to try to make this happen!

howslowcanyougo · 06-20-2005

Just saw this post up at "tooners".....

Looping the waterlines is a super easy job. A 12" piece of hose and loop from one to the other, no big deal.

Oil cooled turbos are designed to be only oil cooled and will last just as long as an oil/water cooled turbo. Generally most guys racing run the bearing out of the turbo from high speed and high load long before heat will ever kill it. You must still cool an oil cooled turbo the same as a oil/water cooled turbo, the procedure is no different. Most turbo manufacturers (Turbonetics / Precision / Garrett) recommend only 30 seconds of cool time after a hard drive. I personally have put over 75,000km (50,000 miles) on my last oil only turbo (on a Turbo VW) and it was no different in shape then my T25 that came off my current car with 50,000 miles on it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/show...ock+waterlines

So can you really just loop the turbo waterlines together for a V Trim install or?

TIA...

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 06-20-2005

Yes, you can just loop them, don't try to plug them with a rubber cap, that won't last long. Most guys out there running bigger turbos that are not 16Gs or 20Gs, don't run water cooling. Cool down time for a turbo is only needed after you just ran it hard. If you were just driving like normal, none is needed.

howslowcanyougo · 06-21-2005

Well I just chickened out and changed my Turbo order to the Evo3 with the big flapper. I just can't see paying all the $ to install the ARP's and HG in this 7 bolt motor, as needed for the 60 trim.

Even between this Evo3 turbo and the new FMIC, you'd think I still should see some descent gains?

At-Least-It's-An-Evo · 06-21-2005

Why are ARPs and a headgasket required for a 60 trim? Detonation is what kills headgaskets and lifts the head, not the size of your turbo.

howslowcanyougo · 06-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuyMySC300

Why are ARPs and a headgasket required for a 60 trim? Detonation is what kills headgaskets and lifts the head, not the size of your turbo.

That's the info that "slowbubblecar" posted to this thread? I'm no expert, but pushing more air and boost = loosing headgaskets makes sense to me?

Overall in my case, with this car, right now, I think that I'm better off backing off from the 60 trim, and settleing for the Evo3 and the FMIC upgrades.

TheBlizzard · 06-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuyMySC300

Why are ARPs and a headgasket required for a 60 trim? Detonation is what kills headgaskets and lifts the head, not the size of your turbo.

So your saying someone could run 30+ psi on stock headbolts and be ok as long as its on a good tune? I agree with the headgasket not having to be anything more than a stock Mitsu since its just like a fuse in my opinion. But not having headbolts? Don't know about that one.

**scheides** · 06-21-2005

Headgaskets get blown by detonation and high boost pressure. a 60-trim will be fine on your stock motor, just do not run more than ~25 lbs of boost. Past that, the stock head studs are not strong enough and the head will start lifting away from the block. Add in the higher likelyhood of detonation at those high boost levels and you got yourself a wicked detonation. Go for a scm61 or something, and tune it for like 19-21 psi and you'll have yourself a pump gas monster.

slowbubblecar · 06-21-2005

My car blew coolant past the HG on 25 psi pump with a 60 trim. The car was not running too lean either. It had 1.83 counts of knock on that run and seemd to run fine except the big cloud of white smoke pouring out the back. My friends car behind me and my car were both misted with coolant. The HG was a new stocker copper sprayed and was torqued down to 95 with a snap on torque wrench. The head bolts were new arps. The car had about 20 miles on it and 2 highway pulls.

howslowcanyougo · 06-21-2005

Guess for me I'd rather be a bit safer than alot sorrier right now.

You'd think this Evo3 with a Evo3 O2 Housing, big flapper and new front mount should net me ~50 to 75 more HP than my old failing Big 16 and stock side mount, right?

Also there seems to be outright disagreement on this board right now, on both headgasket/headbolt standards in relation to turbo size and boost, thus I can't really feel very confident on depending on either of the answers as being true or false in my case.

Besides, I admit I'm still a n00b, and I rather learn some more before going too big and and end up just wrecking my motor.

<cough remember "brokenblackknocking50trim"? cough>

slowbubblecar · 06-21-2005

I don't think 50-75 hp is easily gainable unless the car was just so far out of tune before. The evo3 isn't that much bigger than the old one and I don't think they will get you that much more hp.

john · 06-21-2005

Howie, if you want to do it right, listen to the rest of us who say you should replace the HG on a larger setup. I think an evo 16g is too small to attain you goals of +50hp. It is not much larger than a big 16g. Alpine got ~319hp to the wheels last year on his with a FMIC and dyno tuning on race gas. I wouldn't expect that out of your car as it is an auto. You would have to be the second person who made 400hp on an evo 16g to get ~320 to the wheels. There are quite a bit of possabilites of turbos between the 16g and 60 trim... I would chose a PTE 50 trim or a 20g. I think they will make you happy. I

howslowcanyougo · 06-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowbubblecar

I don't think 50-75 hp is easily gainable unless the car was just so far out of tune before. The evo3 isn't that much bigger than the old one and I don't think they will get you that much more hp.

Looks to me here like a new Evo3 would walk all over a sick big16?

http://www.slowboyracing.com/evo16g.htm

And I suppose the big front mount vs a stock SMIC is worth no gains?

Guess I need a 60 trim and to blow a HG to get anywhere then?

john · 06-21-2005

Read my post...

john · 06-21-2005

An evo 16g flows ~2lbs per minute more than a b16g. That is a diff of about ~20hp. Here is a bit more info about the turbos:

http://www.dsmstyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1229

The thread you pointed to made no claim of a signifigant diff in HP potential. In a car with a s16g and a evo 16g, I would bet on the driver. I do not see a big difference between any of the 16g turbos to justify calling it a worthwile upgrade for you.

howslowcanyougo · 06-21-2005

The Evo3 vs 50 Trim battle wages on....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/show...highlight=evo3

howslowcanyougo · 06-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos

An evo 16g flows ~2lbs per minute more than a b16g. That is a diff of about ~20hp. Here is a bit more info about the turbos:

http://www.dsmstyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1229

The thread you pointed to made no claim of a signifigant diff in HP potential. In a car with a s16g and a evo 16g, I would bet on the driver. I do not see a big difference between any of the 16g turbos to justify calling it a worthwile upgrade for you.

According to this same thread, it looks like 4 lbs more per minute on the Evo3, is 40 + 25 for the new FMIC install = 65 HP gain!

What's wrong with a 65 HP gain, with a minimal risk to your motor to boot?

slowbubblecar

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14B 33lbs/min
16G 36lbs/min
B16G 38lbs/min
Evo16G 42lbs/min

Stole this info from mustgofaster. Mike (vicious) stated that 1lbs/min is about equal to 10 hp so a 14b should go up to 330 hp while an EVO16g should go up to 420 hp. Not sure about the s16g though. I would guess 350 because CVD got 319 fwhp. Add in the drivetrain loss and CVD made around 375 crank Hp.
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With a FMIC you could make another 20 to 30 horses I would think.

slowbubblecar · 06-21-2005

EDITED

Somehow posted with less writing

slowbubblecar · 06-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by howslowcanyougo

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How did this get posted?

I guess I personally don't think it would be a worth wild upgrade. If I were to upgrade, I would go bigger. My GST came with a $800 FP big 16g on it and one of the first things I did to it was upgrade the turbo.
On my car with the blown HG, I am guessing the 6 bolt head might have been warped that was put on the 6 bolt since it wasn't tuned bad and it happened right away. I haven't pulled it off or done anything yet though. I guess I just cant get a good head for this thing if that is the case. It would be the 4th bad one swapped on the car and the 5th swapped in the 6 months I had the stupid car.