Electrical Home Work / Recessed Lighting Specific

AJ · 12-02-2006

Jana and I where talking, and we where looking at things we can start to look at doing on the Townhome to not only increase the value, but give it some additional to stand out among other units that might be for sale around the same time.

Has anyone had an really good expericance with bringing in someone to do this kind of work work, or have they found that doing it themselves was worth the work? If you've hired for it, feel free to suggest someone. I have a bowling team mate I am going to talk to about this as well on Thursday.

We currently have the rough, textured, celing paint and it might even be in out best intrest to change that at the same time.

This would be somethign that would change the complete appearance of the kitchen, dining, and living room area.

**JET** · 12-02-2006

You are going to have to rip the whole ceiling down to do it. In a house with no upstairs it isn't a big deal because you can run the wires for the lights above, but you guys have an upstairs.

Have you guys looked at some of the new track lighting? That would be a lot easier to put in.

**scheides** · 12-02-2006

Do it yourself, it's easy! I did the lighting in my kitchen myself, it was not too bad. Consider some under-cabinet lighting as well.

Pick up a basic how-to book @ home depot, some 14-2 wire, and some remodel cans and go to town!

I've also been told to center the lights over the edge of the counter top.

**scheides** · 12-02-2006

I haven't been to your place in a while, but if you have any white walls or ceilings, consider paint! It is the best bang for your buck to pump up that resale value!

AJ · 12-02-2006

We where also thinking of doing some cool drop down lighting over the breakfast bar. Plus we want to do something with out cupboard and light switches for a light change.

Jet, couldn't we just drill holes in locations and run wires in slotted areas around the edges of the dry wall?

Scheides, we will have to get back over to your place to see it again up close. But I remember looking at it a bit, and it looked sweet.

tim · 12-02-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSMStyle

Jet, couldn't we just drill holes in locations and run wires in slotted areas around the edges of the dry wall?

Yes, thats what you do. You can actually get flexible drill bits that are upto a few feet long to drill through studs. It is a pain but that is how it is done. I would suggest finding an electrician for this, it takes experience to be able to do it properly.

**JET** · 12-02-2006

I have never seen wire run inside the drywall and probably isn't legal. It is just drywall on the ceiling, so it really isn't a big deal to redo it, especially if you want to get rid of the popcorn ceiling anyway. One of my guys is a master electrician, so I can check with him on Monday.

Tim, you still have to rip holes in the ceiling to get up there with a drill bit!

tim · 12-02-2006

Yes, you drill the hole where you are going to mount the lights. Then use that hole to feed in the long ass drill bit. I know a guy who is an electrician also and have seen him do it.

Like I said, it is a pain and takes a lot of work to have it done right.

92EvilTalon · 12-02-2006

Drilling threw studs is not a problem. Code requires you to tie it down like a foot away from the outlet or fixture. But everything else you can run a wire all the wayaround the house. As for lights in the ceiling...its not hard to do. If you don't want to rip the ceiling down to do it just tracklight it. You can get tear drop lights for that table and spot lights for the sink too.

Do you have a light fixture up there already? If so then you can build that tracklighting off of that. You do not have to get a track...they also have wire tracks and other crazy track style lighting. Let me take a photo of my office and you can see the sweet track light I have for it. I love how it looks.

**scheides** · 12-02-2006

Yea, you use a long-ass drill bit. I have one, they rock! My house is open above, so it was a little easier in that respect. However, my kitchen had drywall put up over the original lathing/cement (house was built in 1913), so that took the fun straight out of it!

Instead of taking down the whole ceiling as JET suggested, you can just cut holes in key spots for drilling and then patch them afterwards.

AJ · 12-02-2006

I'll take some pics of our current layout and post them up tomorrow. Would love to just get some ideas and thoughts they we may not already have thought of. Also, big thanks for all the info so far!

**scheides** · 12-02-2006

Here's some pics of my mini remodel. Not very good quality pics, sorry!

http://www.scheides.com/gallery/house-work?page=5

If you're gonna do it yourself, be prepaired for the worst:

carltalon · 12-02-2006

My friend Jesse is a journyman electricion and is taking his masters soon. I think you've met him a few times. He would be willing to do some work for you. running the wires could be easy or hard depending on what type of floor joists you have. If you have a floor truss system it would be pretty easy. TGI's or 2 bys would requier alot of drilling. Can light are very exspensive to have installed. I think the going rate in new contruction is around $100 per can. I know this cause Jesse kept giving me crap when we installed 16 in my basment. Give me a call or shoot me a PM if you want to have him come take a look at it.

**JET** · 12-03-2006

The cans usually (maybe not all?) have a junction box on the side too, so they need to be installed from above. I want to do recessed lighting in the kitchen and the g/f wants to do some of the funky track lighting. I can get at everything from the attic, so it would be easy for me.

rst95eclipse · 12-03-2006

I would strongly suggest hiring a licensed electrician to do the work. I'm not trying to say that your work or someone's work on here isn't going to be up to par, but electricians are insured for any screwups. And lets face it, electricity isn't something that should be taken lightly.

On a side note, you'll have to rip up the drywall to run the wires properly and to mount the recessed cans. Let me guess, the drop down lighting is going to be the blue shaded lights. Those are really cool looking lights and using them can make the room seem to have a modernized look.

carltalon · 12-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

The cans usually (maybe not all?) have a junction box on the side too, so they need to be installed from above. .

There are cans made for re modling that can be put in from the bottom side running the wire would be the only hard part placing the cans is easy.

FattyBoomBatty · 12-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim

I would suggest finding an electrician for this, it takes experience to be able to do it properly.

This is one of the most repressive statements ever. I was told once that if I've never buffed a car before, I should never try it because I didn't know how. Gimme a break, the only way to learn is doing it yourself.

For your recessed lighting, it's SO easy, do it all yourself, and only call someone in if you really screw it up bad. everything can be fixed in a home, there are products for everything.

I forgot to mention that if you have questions about code, get a book from home depot about wiring, and current codes. Doing electrical work is nothing to be worried about either, like some people have said, if you aren't sure where power is on, flip the main breaker to "off" and go crazy. just work during daylight hours and get a battery powered work light. 2 people is better than one, even if the other is just standing there reading from the book.
Good luck!

**scheides** · 12-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by carltalon

There are cans made for re modling that can be put in from the bottom side running the wire would be the only hard part placing the cans is easy.

Yea, they're called remodel cans!

They're made to be installed from below the ceiling, they look like this:

versus a new construction can:

Jana · 12-03-2006

I'm pretty sure we are going to look at hiring someone to do the work. After our plumbing fiasco, I've decided we are not home improvement people... at least not right now.

Here's an example of the light I would love to have over our breakfast bar:
http://www.lampsplus.com/Products/s_...4/37451-84367/
(this particular one is nearly $300/light, so kind of out of my price range right now)

Here's an example of the recessed lighting we like:
http://www.lampsplus.com/Products/s_.../page_1/75640/

Carl, we would be interested in Jesse stopping out sometime and taking a look at what we'd like and maybe giving us a quote. Or PM AJ his phone number and he can call.

Thanks for the input everyone! I'm just tired of our townhome looking like all the others. I've done some painting on our main level, but need to finish by painting the upstairs & hallway.

Enes · 12-03-2006

Yes, basicly if you already have a light in the ceiling its going to be easy, if you don't its going to be a bit tougher. But fear not. You can use one of your outlets for source of the electricity.

Key is going to be figuring out how many lights you want, and how many appliances/lights you already have on the circuit so that you don't trip the breaker when you turn the lights on.

In the case of the outlet. You will need a line fish pulling thing not sure how you call it in English, a sharp razer blade a small chisel and a hammer. From the store get the choice of the remodel version cups, and remodel version outlet box along with a huge choice on controllers, if you want dimmer you will have to use standard lights, you can't dim fluorescents.
Open up your outlet, pull out the notch, cut the sheetrock where you want the switch to be, pull a 14-2 depending on what wire is in the outlet use the same wire again, don't go thiner or thicker.
So now you have power source, notch corner above the switch box into the ceiling, use the chisel and cut away wood about 1/3 of an inch, get a metal plate to protect the cable, make sure the hole is just big enough for the cable to be fed through and that the plate can be pounded into the 2x4's.

I would suggest getting a drill with a adjustable sheetrock cutting blades, basically you adjust the cutting blade how far you want the diameter of the circle to be and let the drill spin, its a lot cleaner than a sawzawl or handsaw.

Another key thing is going to be figuring out where your 2x4's are on the wall and on the ceiling, it would suck that you ruin your ceiling popcorn is hard to fix or you will have to scrape the whole ceiling and re-popcorn it again.

I did this in about 4 homes now, one home had 18 cans on one ceiling and another 12 on the second, we ran the wires to both locations so that you can turn on and off each lights individually at both locations, except then you will have to run 14-3 wires... made myself almost $1800 off of that project alone.

few other tools that will help a lot, stud finder, hot wire checker, drill, hole cutter, wire stripper, proper ceiling cans, a thing many people forget to get is the wire tighteners to protect against cable rubbing on the sharp edge when you run the electrical wire into the can box. get some cable ties and clips...
also check how long of a run between the boxes are so that you know how long of a drill bit to get..

You should be able to do it yourself, but if you can't there is plenty of contractors out there.