Obama losing his own supporters... - Page 3

Matt D. · 03-29-2009

Funny, I post that link and Tom doesn't have a rebuttal.

tpunx99GSX · 03-29-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

Funny, I post that link and Tom doesn't have a rebuttal.

Sorry i hadnt checked the site in the last couple days because my sons bday is tomorrow so we have been doing stuff for that.

The article is typical conservative twisting of words. Such as Obamas response to Ed Henrys question. tell me this, would you rather have Obama go off on every corporate failure such as the AIG, or would you rather have someone get all the facts before becoming outraged at people like AIG taking bonuses. Its much better to have all of the facts straight before throwing stones as opposed to having to apologize for a mistake in judgment. What would have happened if he had been outraged at AIG and it turned out that they actually hadnt taken the bonuses and that it was a complete miscommunication? Republicans would have jumped all over him like Ed Henry. I would rather have a president that gets all the facts before passing judgment then one that bombs anyone who supposedly does something bad. (yes that was a bush reference, go fuck yourself if you defend him)
Of course people will make mistakes, but as for Obama failing economics, No. The problem isnt that Obama Supporters such as myself are still caught up in the drama of a black president, its that EVERYONE has set the bar so high for a president that no matter what he does he will fail. Why is it that everyone keeps saying that hes trying to take on TOO MUCH. Since when did americans start becoming so pessimistic that we resort to saying things like Too much. When we had the American Revolution, what would have happened if americans such as yourselves had said The British are TOO Much. We would be complaining about a king not a president.
Healthcare, Education, Alternative fuels and technology are not something you want to skimp on. The fact that these industries have been failing on a catastrophic level because of underfunding is not something obama did. Its something that previous presidents did.
Healthcare - I have gone over this before and will go over it again. A government funded healthcare system IS NOT A BAD THING. People like myself who are currently out of a job not because of anything we did but because of a failure of the economy and businesses currently do not have insurance. Im lucky enough that my fiance is still working so my 1 year old son still has insurance under her. But if she were to lose her job and my son gets sick, If I were to get help i would be drowned in bills. The fact we havent gone to a socialised healthcare by now is just stupid.
Education - the US has one of the worst education systems in the world, its about time we started putting some money towards it.
Alternative fuels and technology - We need to start producing our own energy instead of going to china for batteries, Middle east for oil, and mexico for manufacturing, the US needs to start taking pride in creating something new that will drive this economy forward instead of looking for a something for nothing handout to wealth such as lotterys or pyramid schemes.

Please remember that obama has only been in office for 2 months, what did GWB do in his first two months?

**Halon** · 03-29-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

one that bombs anyone who supposedly does something bad. (yes that was a bush reference, go fuck yourself if you defend him)

Good point. Those that we went to war against were definitely some good folks that did nothing bad.

Also if you and your fiance are both laid off, there are programs already in place to help you in regards to health care (just an FYI for you to start looking into in case that does happen).

I personally am not a supporter of government ran health care. The current government ran system leaves a bit to be desired, and I'm a bit skeptical that they could do any better on a much larger scale. My girlfriend constantly goes on and on about it as she sees it first hand. Somehow it seems that far too often, the people who really need the help get the short end of the stick, and the ones who make out like bandits are those who have learned to work the system.

My .02 cents.

tpunx99GSX · 03-29-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

Good point. Those that we went to war against were definitely some good folks that did nothing bad.

The point is having the proper information prior to dropping bombs. The terrorists were from Afghanistan but yet we bombed Iraq? sounds like someone got their coordinates mixed up. Sure Saddam needed to be handled, but when you market a war as a war on terrorism you should get the terrorists. Saddam didnt attack us, he killed his own people. Which we took over that job at the drop of a hat. GG now we are the new saddam.
Want to cut the spending? Bring the troops back, all of them. I was watching Bill Maher the other night and he said something that i knew but didnt realize to the extent it was happening. We still have troops in Germany and Japan. Why do we have them there? (serious question) They are not at war, they dont need our help in any way shape or form? But yet we spend countless dollars keeping troops in something like 150+ countries. Bring 60% of them home and think about how much savings that would create.
The public only hears about troops going to Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Mexico. But thats only a small amount of our Empire.

Quote:

In a perfect world, socialized health care may be a good thing. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. The health care will not be free, YOU (and many others in the US) will be paying for it through more and more taxes, which is just what we need in times of a shit economy right? I don't get why people believe health care is a "right".

Its a small price to pay to the American public to be assured that you will be able to get care in times of sickness. As long as we appoint leaders that can put their own greed aside for the betterment of society as a whole, we can create a system that is a hybrid of a full socialized health care system. Such as making companies pay for their employees health care, and thus putting less stress on the government funds. Government would only pay for the unemployed peoples health care. We would spend money in Preventative health care so that it will cut more costly procedures that went untreated.
This is NOT new, Countries have done this for years and are doing just fine. On the Canada health care link, I really don't think its relevant because like all stories they have two sides, i.e. Matt D's link. You get one person who decides he doesn't like something so they make a website dedicated to it. But the general consensus is that socialized health care does work.
http://www.gadling.com/media/2007/07...reworldbig.jpg Here are the countries that currently have universal health care. notice what countries do not have it.... Yes we are grouped with third world countries on this one.

mdost03 · 03-29-2009

tpunx, in the future, try to use some paragraphs in your posting. You are trying too hard to prove to us that the US education is shit. Your hurt my head trying to decipher it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Please remember that obama has only been in office for 2 months, what did GWB do in his first two months?

Not spend more money/pass spending bills that surpass every other US President in history combined?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Healthcare - I have gone over this before and will go over it again. A government funded healthcare system IS NOT A BAD THING. People like myself who are currently out of a job not because of anything we did but because of a failure of the economy and businesses currently do not have insurance. Im lucky enough that my fiance is still working so my 1 year old son still has insurance under her. But if she were to lose her job and my son gets sick, If I were to get help i would be drowned in bills. The fact we havent gone to a socialised healthcare by now is just stupid.

In a perfect world, socialized health care may be a good thing. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. The health care will not be free, YOU (and many others in the US) will be paying for it through more and more taxes, which is just what we need in times of a shit economy right? I don't get why people believe health care is a "right".

Here is a link with articles pertaining why Socialized Health Care is not an answer (30 sec search on google):
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...ocialized.html

Canadian Health Care Issues
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_...ealthcare.html

"Basic economics tells us that if a commodity is offered at zero price, demand will increase, supply will drop, and a shortage will develop."

^Sounds awesome for people that NEED health care that are dying. Oh, but Joe Schmo walking in off the street needs to be checked out for a cold so you will have to wait.

tpunx99GSX · 03-29-2009

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/...th-care-part-i
Like i said, there is always a rebuttal site.
"10. This all sounds great -- but the taxes to cover it are just unaffordable. And besides, isn't the system in bad financial shape?
False. On one hand, our annual Canadian tax bite runs about 10% higher than our U.S. taxes did. On the other, we're not paying out the equivalent of two new car payments every month to keep the family insured here. When you balance out the difference, we're actually money ahead. When you factor in the greatly increased social stability that follows when everybody's getting their necessary health care, the impact on our quality of life becomes even more signficant.

And True -- but only because this is a universal truth that we need to make our peace with. Yes, the provincial plans are always struggling. So is every single publicly-funded health care system in the world, including the VA and Medicare. There's always tension between what the users of the system want, and what the taxpayers are willing to pay. The balance of power ebbs and flows between them; but no matter where it lies at any given moment, at least one of the pair is always going to be at least somewhat unhappy.

But, as many of us know all too well, there's also constant tension between what patients want and what private insurers are willing to pay. At least when it's in government hands, we can demand some accountability. And my experience in Canada has convinced me that this accountability is what makes all the difference between the two systems."

**Halon** · 03-29-2009

We have troops located all over the world. I spent a year in Japan. We don't have troops over there all geared up at "camps" sitting in tents, ready to engage the Japs at the drop of a dime (kinda how I took your comment). We have bases there, just like we have them here. None hostile bases, there to help keep an eye on other parts far away from home. Also our presence in Japan has something to do with a treaty signed after WW2 keeping them from having a large military, and we will be there instead. I don't see it as a bad thing. Just don't think of our Japan bases as camps prepped for action. They are bases, where we are free to own cars, not wearing cammies, free to do as we want, they are "for the most part" free to come on the bases. Part of the community like they are here. Or maybe I just understood you wrong.

tpunx99GSX · 03-29-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

We have troops located all over the world. I spent a year in Japan. We don't have troops over there all geared up at "camps" sitting in tents, ready to engage the Japs at the drop of a dime (kinda how I took your comment). We have bases there, just like we have them here. None hostile bases, there to help keep an eye on other parts far away from home. Also our presence in Japan has something to do with a treaty signed after WW2 keeping them from having a large military, and we will be there instead. I don't see it as a bad thing. Just don't think of our Japan bases as camps prepped for action. They are bases, where we are free to own cars, not wearing cammies, free to do as we want, they are "for the most part" free to come on the bases. Part of the community like they are here. Or maybe I just understood you wrong.

Thank you for the clarification. Being that I am not in the military I did not know what went on in these countries.

Jakey · 03-30-2009

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/0...for-banks.html

john · 03-31-2009

There is alot to say on this but I don't have the time. In the meantime, OBAMA WON BITCHES!!!!!

Nothing you can do or say will change that and America has a chance at getting out of this. In a year and a half, the recession will be turning around and it will all be the same, you all will bitch about how it could have been better.

Anyone ever think that the war helped lead to the recession???? Billions of spending, value of the dollar dropping due to increased government spending, gas to $4 per gallon, all costs up (what doesn't require gas?), less money in businesses, less jobs, and Obama sent in to fix it all.

It is easy to sit behind the protection of you computer screens and talk about how bad things are but what are you doing to try and fix this issue? NOTHING. You get up, scrape the snow off you car in the driveway, go to work, pull back into the driveway, look at your non-running dsm in the garage (man, wish I had another spot in the garage), and come on the internet and bitch about how bad things are.

Get over it, the election is over. Nothing is going to change over night. This issue took several years to develope, give him time.

Matt D. · 03-31-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

Anyone ever think that the war helped lead to the recession???? Billions of spending, value of the dollar dropping due to increased government spending, gas to $4 per gallon, all costs up (what doesn't require gas?), less money in businesses, less jobs, and Obama sent in to fix it all.

What does the war have to do with banks giving loans to unqualified lenders? What does the war have to do with businesses like GM being unable to manage their own finances? They post

Now Obama is guaranteeing GM's warranties, but says the government has no interest in running GM. So... Which is it? You don't kick the CEO out the door and give him $20 million, that's the job of the board of directors. What the hell has happened to American business? Oh, that's right, the government is running it. Wait, who in Obama's administration has private sector experience? That would be no one. Obama, Chris Dodd, Geithner, Charlie Rangel, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Majority Leader Harry Reid... All are professional politicians or attorneys. Name a successful business that just listened to a group of attorneys to fix problems. Guess what? It doesn't exist. This group of people is trying to legislate equilibrium in the marketplace and it isn't going to work.

In the 1970s the government molded a standard by which Detroit would survive and it didn't work. It's considered a bailout by today's terms, so what makes anyone think it will work 30 years later? Ten years ago the big three posted a combined profit of over $16 billion dollars, today they're begging for money from the government. Let them rot.

niterydr · 03-31-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

There is alot to say on this but I don't have the time. In the meantime, OBAMA WON BITCHES!!!!!

Nothing you can do or say will change that and America has a chance at getting out of this. In a year and a half, the recession will be turning around and it will all be the same, you all will bitch about how it could have been better.

Anyone ever think that the war helped lead to the recession???? Billions of spending, value of the dollar dropping due to increased government spending, gas to $4 per gallon, all costs up (what doesn't require gas?), less money in businesses, less jobs, and Obama sent in to fix it all.

It is easy to sit behind the protection of you computer screens and talk about how bad things are but what are you doing to try and fix this issue? NOTHING. You get up, scrape the snow off you car in the driveway, go to work, pull back into the driveway, look at your non-running dsm in the garage (man, wish I had another spot in the garage), and come on the internet and bitch about how bad things are.

Get over it, the election is over. Nothing is going to change over night. This issue took several years to develope, give him time.

Quoting this post so I can shread the shit out of it in 1.5 years.
*subscribe*

**Kracka** · 03-31-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

There is alot to say on this but I don't have the time. In the meantime, OBAMA WON BITCHES!!!!!

Nothing you can do or say will change that and America has a chance at getting out of this. In a year and a half, the recession will be turning around and it will all be the same, you all will bitch about how it could have been better.

Anyone ever think that the war helped lead to the recession???? Billions of spending, value of the dollar dropping due to increased government spending, gas to $4 per gallon, all costs up (what doesn't require gas?), less money in businesses, less jobs, and Obama sent in to fix it all.

It is easy to sit behind the protection of you computer screens and talk about how bad things are but what are you doing to try and fix this issue? NOTHING. You get up, scrape the snow off you car in the driveway, go to work, pull back into the driveway, look at your non-running dsm in the garage (man, wish I had another spot in the garage), and come on the internet and bitch about how bad things are.

Get over it, the election is over. Nothing is going to change over night. This issue took several years to develope, give him time.

Wow. Aren't you just all high and mighty now! We've been doing for 2 months what the liberals did for 8 years...think about it. Some of the comments you made in your post are nothing more than shots at some of the members on this board and have nothing to do with this thread so please refrain from them. It wasn't that long ago when you too had busted DSM's and parts laying all over your mom's garage.

There is obviously quite a bit about commodities trading you don't understand, but if you want to blame Bush for the high price of gas, maybe you should give him some credit for it dropping back down under $2 last fall