Evo X upgrades - Page 14

**mlomker** · 02-18-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-revzr

My savings starts in about a month after the car gets tuned lol..

You'll be growing up quicker than me, buddy. I probably won't consider the car done until it is totalled or stolen.

They say that Capricorns age in reverse. Might be something to that.

turbotalon1g · 02-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

haha. Technically I haven't dipped into credit but before I bought this car I had a savings account well into the five figures. Gone.

Tough to argue with that. A lot of things are opinion. A lot of things on a new car (like the X) nobody knows at all. Is it adequate to use DW1000's on a double-pump to max out an FP Red or will murlo26 need an fpr or larger injectors? He doesn't know and I don't either.

Paying by the hour for shop/dyno time and buying parts just to swap them in & out while tuners/installers learn what is needed is SUPER expensive business. If I had a 10 year old car then I suppose I could be accused of not doing my homework and being lazy. I spend so much time on the forums that I'm more than a little worried about my employer noticing.

I didn't know shit about cars until six months ago, despite my age. There's a learning curve with everything. Many of the guys on this forum have been 'car guys' for many years. I don't pretend to be in your league.

Not really, just actually try to learn about cars, How does he know what injectors he will need?

Work out the brake specific fuel consumption needs of what his whp should be and work from there.

INcrease by 20%ish for a good safety margin. If you noobies don't know and want to blame it on the cars being new then go ahead, but there are plenty of local tuners and national that could lend a hand, MAP made 800 on their 10, I've heard of ETS making some good power, there seem to be plenty of shops trying out all kinds of shit for these newer cars.
I am sure they might be able to lend a hand somewhere, I think help is just a phone call away rather than believing all the "wise" insight you might find from some joe on the net.

HE might want some 1200s, btw if shooting for 550hp (i'm not sure about what the red does if you could let me know I could try to work it out.)

**mlomker** · 02-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

I am sure they might be able to lend a hand somewhere, I think help is just a phone call away rather than believing all the "wise" insight you might find from some joe on the net.

HE might want some 1200s, btw if shooting for 550hp (i'm not sure about what the red does if you could let me know I could try to work it out.)

Most of the Joe's are guys that run performance shops elsewhere in the country. You can also lump outfits like MAP and the other performance shops into the equation.

If you want install an afpr on a Evo 8/9 then you just order a kit from MAP and bolt it on. They don't make one for the X so Dave (murlo26) is having MAP take his car for a couple weeks to build a kit. Sure it'll be for sale later down the road but it's not there today. All I'm saying is that anything you want to do on an Evo 8/9 (or DSM) there will be 10 guys that have already done it, posted a how-to, and offering the parts on Ebay for $20. It's not like that on the X right now. Every time you want something you have to find someone willing to figure it out, negotiate what that's gonna cost, etc. My Full Blown/double pump setup was the first one ever done. My BB-X is the first one...production #1. It is harder, that's all I'm saying.

Regarding the injectors...that's a part of the fun. Nobody makes 1200cc injectors for the X. You can buy 1000's or 2200's if you're on E85. Murlo is going to try overdriving the 1000's. I'll probably try the 2200's.

I have asked Shane & Ron quite a few questions (in addition to Buschur and other shop owners). The answer in almost every case is "It worked xx way on the 8/9's. Want to give it a try (at $75+/hr)?"

turbotalon1g · 02-18-2010

yeah looks like it.

**goodhart** · 02-18-2010

Researching before buying FTW.

FattyBoomBatty · 02-18-2010

Things like vacuum lines and fluids and stuff; just buy them at an auto parts store locally. You can take your parts in that you want to fit, and test which hose goes on without spending any money.

And quit bitching about running out of money. You know how much the parts cost when you click buy on the internet.

**mlomker** · 02-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

And quit bitching about running out of money.

I'm taking night classes to finish a degree and it adds a little more stress than I can deal with...bleeds over with me freaking out about things that I normally wouldn't.

**Kracka** · 02-19-2010

You've definitely undertaken a huge project all at once. I've found it to be easier, cheaper, less stressful, and frankly more fun and rewarding to mod slowly and just do a part or two at a time.

**mlomker** · 02-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

I've found it to be easier, cheaper, less stressful, and frankly more fun and rewarding to mod slowly and just do a part or two at a time.

You're 100% right. I've made something that should be fun not-fun. There's an appeal to not having multiple tunes, limiting downtime, and not doing rework (the "while you're in there" disease).

I think the answer is to figure out my taxes tomorrow and decide what's rational right now. It'd be fairly cheap to bolt the exhaust mani/turbo on right away and then plan the cams/internal work as another phase. Might be interesting to have non-cam numbers on the turbo setup anyway. hmm.

**Kracka** · 02-19-2010

I don't really agree with your "limiting downtime" statement. My car has never been down for more than a few hours any given weeknight or weekend. Doing one thing at a time allows you to get the car back on the road within hours of beginning the work, and if an issue arises, helps you pinpoint it since only certain things were touched. Some things make sense to go together such as the turbo, o2 housing, and exhaust manifold since they all need to be removed anyway to replace just the turbo, but trying to lump cams, etc. into that job is just going to lead to frustration and more down-time.

**mlomker** · 02-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracka

I don't really agree with your "limiting downtime" statement.

Most of my work is done by shops, either RS or DB so I need to deal with their schedules. I live alone, don't have a garage (park in a ramp), and only have one car. Have to see if I can borrow Dad's pickup truck for any multi-day projects.

You did get me thinking that breaking this into two jobs would be less painful.

1) exhaust manifold/turbo/test pipe/throttle body/mild tune
2) rods/pistons/cams/springs/more aggressive tune

I shot Shane an email to get some feedback. The first one is basically a one-day job. The second one is probably 2-3 days.

**Murlo26** · 02-19-2010

^That's what I essentially ended up doing. Mild tune first, big tune after clutch/flywheel/SSP MC.

I honestly think you will find it easier to do this. Plus you can break in some parts first. Maybe do the internals/cams first...that way those will be all good to go so your not dyno'ing on them new.

Just a thought. Turbo is obviously more appealing.

**mlomker** · 02-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

Just a thought. Turbo is obviously more appealing.

I could just have him fix the idle on the cams and do a final tune later.

I'm thinking some people might like to see the BB-X on stock internals w/no cams as far as the dyno sheet goes. Having before/after with the MX1's vs just the BB-X would also be interesting.

It's also the less expensive part of the project. Wanna figure out my tax situation since phase 2 could be postponed if necessary.

Shane had some questions about my choice in head studs and head gasket (Arp & Cosworth). I want to ask around and make sure I'm making the right decision since that motor is only coming apart once. <knock on wood>

slowbubblecar · 02-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

Most of my work is done by shops, either RS or DB so I need to deal with their schedules. I live alone, don't have a garage (park in a ramp), and only have one car. Have to see if I can borrow Dad's pickup truck for any multi-day projects.

You did get me thinking that breaking this into two jobs would be less painful.

1) exhaust manifold/turbo/test pipe/throttle body/mild tune
2) rods/pistons/cams/springs/more aggressive tune

I shot Shane an email to get some feedback. The first one is basically a one-day job. The second one is probably 2-3 days.

If it was me and I was paying someone to do the work, I would probaly try to get all of these done at the same time. To do the motor work, you will need the whole trubo setup off at the same time anyhow and it will save on having the car tuned again. Just my opionion though...

**mlomker** · 02-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowbubblecar

you will need the whole trubo setup off at the same time anyhow and it will save on having the car tuned again. Just my opionion though...

My understanding is that the exhaust mani would have to come off but that's it. The X turbo bolts to the back side of the motor so that can all stay in place. I guess I should double-check that.

I'm guessing once the stock mani is off the car that re-pulling the tubular later will be cake by comparison since the nuts won't be as bad. At least that was my experience with the downpipe.

I'll get Shane's opinion on it.

**Murlo26** · 02-19-2010

I know exactly what I am getting into, it's not like I am spending money and hoping it all works out, i have researched all this. I take a long time before I buy anything, I bought my turbo in November and haven't done anything with it until now.

Limited available options for the X make it harder to mod. I know the 1000's will be fine, Ryan Gates is pushing 570whp on E85 out of them, I won't be near that.

Also, the reason I lumped everything in to one thing was because MAP has offered to test fit products on their car in exchange for deals on parts/install costs. And I am doing in a short time because I have a replacement vehicle for the time being but that isn't for much longer.

So yea, there is plenty of logic to my stuff. I am not too worried, it will work out.

**mlomker** · 02-19-2010

Shane got back to me with an estimate on my build and it'll be quite a bit cheaper to do it in one shot, due to rework. The price is affordable, so I'm totally stoked!

I'm going to do at least a partial install of the fuel system early next week. If I don't get it all the way in then I'll know exactly what needs to be done and I'll have DB finish the job.

slowbubblecar · 02-19-2010

I knew it would be a bit cheaper to do in one shot. If the turbo setup is actually on the back side of the motor, I am sure it will save a lot of time.

**mlomker** · 02-22-2010

I did some prep work on the car tonight--took out the back seat and front strut bar. I might be daring and try the fuel rail and filter in the parking ramp. The security guard has seen me under the hood a couple times and hasn't said anything. I wonder when that shoe will fall...

I decided to pull out the stock airbox and install the AMS intake. I screwed that up by overtightening the hose clamp around the filter and bending the aluminum pipe. I'll have to swing by Home Depot tomorrow to see if they have some kind of tool that'll push from the inside of the pipe and get it closer to round.

Matt D. · 02-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

I decided to pull out the stock airbox and install the AMS intake. I screwed that up by overtightening the hose clamp around the filter and bending the aluminum pipe. I'll have to swing by Home Depot tomorrow to see if they have some kind of tool that'll push from the inside of the pipe and get it closer to round.

Lesson learned, the intake doesn't see any pressure so it doesn't need to be super tight, it just can't fall off. If you can wiggle it by hand and it stays together then it's good enough.