1g DSM AWD - Chump Car?

[Speedfreak]

We've been searching for a prospective chump car for a few weeks now, and our general thought was simple, light, reliable. Meaning CRX, Civic hatch, or old Mr2. The CRX/Civic I believe could be a 1600lb car plus or minus, not sure about the Mr2.

Just curious what the lightest AWD DSM with a cage has been out there? The other Chump car thread just got me thinking about doing a dsm instead of the cars we've been looking for. It's a lot harder then you'd imagine finding a dirt cheap Honda/Toyota.

I also have a stupid amount of parts for a dsm in bins, so that could help as well.

Thoughts? Negatives, positives? Good idea, horrible idea? Doable?

[Shane@DBPerformance]

People are running SN95 Mustangs, SC400, Contours, BMWs, Subarus, etc, so there are plenty of non-featherweight cars out there. If you did a 1G, making it handle worth a shit for no money might be some work, 2Gs are better setup for handling, but power potential is lower with the T25. You would also need to go very conservative on the tuning, it needs to hold together for 24 hours worth of full throttle, the stock intercoolers suck at even factory boost, running race gas would cost a small fortune, running E85 might mean too many pit stops, and DSMs are very knock prone on pump gas at much over factory boost levels. If you run too little timing to avoid knock, then you melt the turbo in road racing applications too.

[mlomker]

I'll translate that from Shane-speak into English: No.

[viridionplague]

another shane speak break down... "just because you can. dosent mean you should"

[mlomker]

I'd suppose the larger question is what type of car could be most competitive? That's what every team is trying to figure out. The fact that the ChumpCar races are so long is definitely a big part of that equation.

[Goat Blower]

I read it as a yes with some complications.

[mlomker]

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

I read it as a yes with some complications.

I wouldn't rule that out. The current state of my motor could be explained by not understanding Shane's advice. I still haven't decided whose fault that is.

[turbotalon1g]

I think Shane is saying it will be tough.
Glad we have some nay Sayers in here that can't put a Dsm together.

Send a message to jack from jacks transmissions, like I said he put one together for either a chumpcar race or lemons race and they were quite successful.

With your ability to weld and fab u should be able to go quite far and I think a cheap eBay fmic would help out a lot.

Good luck, if u need/want some help I'd love to give you a hand.

[awd-drifter]

we should have a Mitsustyle Chump car

[Speedfreak]

Intercooler was a major concern when the thought crossed my mind. I'm not familiar enough with rules, so wasn't sure if finding a cheap supra side mount(or any other oem intercooler people dump cheap) or something was an option?

Wondering if by losing 5-800lbs would help the stock suspension handle better?

I knew going into this question, there was a better chance the answer would/could be it will be tough to pull off reliably. Thus the reason I didn't really consider it in the first place.

Thanks for the responses so far, and like mlomker mentioned, if anyone has any other suggestions for a good platform to start with.. throw it out there.

[simulatedwood]

I think a DSM would be a worthy competitor but, it would need to be n/a to get the fuel mileage needed to go the full 2 hours stints required to win. In this series pit strategy is everything, and so is reliability. It can be done, but it would be better done with a stroked N/A build.

Shake and Bake!

[simulatedwood]

As far as other car that would be good, there really is 3 cars that dominate right now:

E36 Bmw
Ford SHO
Miata

The MR2 is has been on the podium, but yet the get the victory, we were so close at Road America

Shake and Bake!

[Shane@DBPerformance]

A DSM could be done, but you can't treat it like a drag or street car. Road racing is a whole different world as far as tuning and reliability go. The $500 limit is a bit of a problem when it coems to making a reliable turbo car and then there is fuel usage, you have to run a turbo car a lot richer than an NA car making the same power and then you have to run a turbo road race car even richer than a street car, so pitstops and just the cost of fuel becomes a problem. Race gas would help immensely, but 100-250 gallons of gas used racing in a weekend adds up.

I find it a little funny that a transmission shop is what it takes to Chumpcar race a DSM. It's a shit load of fun though, you should be able to get away with some things, since I have no idea how half of the cars out there could be considered to have an average internet value (AIV) of $500 or less. Some of them would obviously go for $1500-$5000 in the real world, but it's hard to be mad at anyone since just about everyone is nice out there and nobody is blowing anyones doors off(except maybe if the Contour from the last race didn't keep crashing and blowing shit up, it was quite fast when a decent driver was in it). The SC400 was fast in the straights too.

You will need some $$$ and lots of time though to get a car running. Even though it's a "$500" car, you will probably have to spend a lot in getting things back to good shape, adding safety equipment, gear, entry fees, etc. The other guys on our team spend a shit load of time working on the car and getting things setup, we might also be one of the most organized teams when it comes to having tools, spare part bins, etc at the track. I just pretty much get in the car and drive and try to stay on the track.

[turbotalon1g]

I might know of a car for this, but its stripped to bare metal I believe.

[Tachyon]

What about using a CSM (colt, mirage, summit) platform with an N/A 2.4 swapped in? Use low weight and reliability as its weapon?

[Speedfreak]

Originally Posted by Tachyon

What about using a CSM (colt, mirage, summit) platform with an N/A 2.4 swapped in? Use low weight and reliability as its weapon?

Yeah, I considered this, and still would. If anyone happens to come across one for sale, let me know.

[Halon]

RRE uswd to kick some road coarse arse in fwd dsm's back in the day. So it can be done. But those weren't $500 cars either...

[s1ngletracker]

I think the key to a successful DSM is to keep the boost at stock levels, do the free/cheap mods to liven it up a bit, and work MOSTLY on getting maintenance up to date and making it reliable. Belts, hoses, eliminate balance shafts, gaskets, bearings, rings, etc. Tired old DSM suspension makes for a pig-like handling experience, so try to remediate that.

I dont know how much you really need to upgrade the intercooler on stock boost.. I don't really even know how our car will handle the blazing heat of the summer. So far so good, but it was like 50 degrees or colder.

I think it could be a great platform though, I don't see why not.

And Shane - that is IT! we are putting you to work :P But I think Shane has a pretty good idea of what it would take. You definitely cannot treat this like a street car. I have been anal and super overly-conservative when I set up our turbo kit. If you think there is even the slightest chance that a component will fail, address it until you no longer feel that way.

[1QUICK4]

Originally Posted by awd-drifter

we should have a Mitsustyle Chump car

I've thought about donating my GVR4 shell to the site for a Mitsustyle Chump Car

[Speedfreak]

Dsm sidemount will heatsoak for sure, regardless of boost level.

A 2.5l AWD subie may be a good option as well.

The search continues.