Death to Saddam

[Krazy_boi05]

Yeah, i was reading the newspaper and saw and read that he was going to be hanged.. but i still think that even if that happens, us is still gunna be in iraq for a while..

[rst95eclipse]

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

I agree with Steve also, but with all the satellite technology we have, we would have seen plenty of it leaving the country. It's hard to truck missles and such without being out in the open.

We have essentially the best intelligence in the world. We can read a license plate from 20 miles up, but can't seem to locate stockpiles of weapons that we "know" were there. The American public was fed either lies or assumptions. This administration stated that information about the location of WMDs and a link between Iraq, Al Queda, and the Sept. 11th attacks would be presented. They never were. It troubles me even more when this administration will not release information about Iraq until after the mid-term elections. Saddam posed no real threat to the American people. If I were told that we were going there to overthrow him because he kill thousands or even millions of his own people, then I would be a bit more understanding of the situation. But all I heard was WMDs, 9/11, terrorists........After the fact - Oh yeah, by the way, we ousted an evil dictator and instilled democracy. The truth is, if that were the basis of going over there, he wouldn't have had the American people's support.

The fact of the matter is, Saddam will not be executed. It would just make the entire region even more unstable. This is just merely a ploy to show Americans that there has been success in Iraq. Please, releasing this news just two days before a mid-term election in which the majority party that holds essentially all forms of government is trying to be re-elected is not coincidence. The success of our mission in Iraq should not be based upon the capture, trial, sentencing, and execution of a dictator.

[xveganxcowboyx]

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

Well, if we'd have all known that beforehand, it would've made it much easier to make the decision. But we didn't, and a decision was made, sometimes you have to do that, popular or not. Had Iraq fired a missle our way at some point, we'd all be mad at Bush for not doing anything. Iraq definitely had a nuclear program, but even when that information is given to the American public, some democrats cry foul and have it removed stating the info could get into the wrong hands. Since we just took it out of the wrong hands, that's a weak argument in my book. More like bad timing for them as far as elections go. Hmmmm.

We did know about it. There were very few things presented as evidence of Iraqs weapons programs, including the aluminum tubes being imported and a supposed mobile chemical factory. Even if these things had been true they would not have added up to a solid justification for war. Interestingly it was shown (after the fact) that the evidence was absolutely bogus and this was known before the invasion. This is why the entire world was opposed to the invasion in the first place. They knew and we knew Iraq was not a threat. Unfotunately that is not the story the government told the american people.

Further more the United States has no right to complain about weak intelligence when we were the ones who forced a withdrawl of recently admitted weapons inspectors so we could attack. It went like this: Iraq stalls and keeps inspectors out. The UN and world governments get pissy and push for admittance. Iraq allows weapons and nuclear inspectors in. The US tells them to get out so it can attack.


Besides that, just because we don't have pictures of all the weapons with Saddam posing in front of it doesn't mean they weren't there. They had plenty of time to get rid of them before we came over and it's widely though that a lot of it was trucked into Syria. There's also been reports of high levels or serin and other toxic gases dumped into the rivers there, it wouldn't be hard to get rid of. I think it's just a matter of time before we find something big.

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

I'll agree, Saddam obviously wasn't directly responsible for 9/11. Did he help Al Qaeda along the way? Very good possibility. Did he knowingly harbor and Al Qaeda, I can pretty much guarantee it. Just because you don't see it on the nightly news doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you've been in the military during any conflict at all, you'd know that.

Again, there is no evidence supporting this. Saying there might be a possibility it happened is no justification for anything. In fact, there have been many more documented meetings with US officials and Al Quaeda officials than Iraqi and Al Quaeda. I'm not suggesting any US Al Quaeda connection, but pointing out the total lack evidence on that connection.

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

Point is, going in and killing the bad guy isn't cut and dry in this case. But along the way, we got rid of a murderous dictator and are restoring democracy to a country that's been in fear for decades. We're also building schools and giving freedom to people that are just realizing what it is. So even if we haven't gotten what we came for yet, we've left doing more for that country than all the "save the world" organizations combined could ever do. I feel good about that.

To some degree I agree with you. I don't think we are doing a whole lot of good in Iraq currently, nor do I think our actions come close to comparing with those of the thousands of aid organisations world wide, but we are in Iraq now. We are trying to do some decent things. I truly hope that we can do some good in the long run. Current trends suggest otherwise, but it's possible we may create a democratic country. It's possible we may help create an economically stable country. We've screwed up a lot with arrogant and unjustified actions. the least we can do now is work our asses off to leave the place better than it was when we went in.

As a side note, I think we would have been much more justified in aiding Kurdish rebels in 91. Whether or not it would have been good strategy I don't know, but at that point we had a decent reason to do it.

[tpunx99GSX]

OK im not even gonna read the previous posts, so if this is a repost of what people have already said then oh well.
I am really happy that saddam is finally gonna be gone. It needed to happen.

On the topic of bush....
This douche should have been out of office a LOOOONG time ago. But i dont believe he should be hanged. more like sent off to fight in the "war", That way he can show support for his actions. Even in the days of Kings the king would show up to some if not all of the battles so he could witness the loss or win of the battle. Thats what i call showing support, not just sitting in an office with his hand on the button waiting to send more troops.
The government is all about checks and balences. Bush is as much to blame for this situation we are in as congress. Bush has Veto athority and could have used it to stop us from INVADING (yeah i said it) Iraq.
I remember when he originally made his speech (i was working at the sportsmans guide in so st paul) and said that this effort would be quick with minimal casulties. (also note that Hitler had a name for this type of action, Blitzkrieg) That was around 4 years ago. So how quick is quick. and the death toll is nearing if not passing the war in Vietnam.
Bush needs to stop putting us in the world police situations and start pulling the troops out and letting the governments of other countries run their own damn country, or else he can go join the war.
Does anyone remember when the first caskets from this war came back from Iraq, Bush didnt even have the balls to show up for the ceramony. All of congress and Bush should have all been there for every casket that came back, maybe then we would have pulled out much sooner.
Flame me if you want for fucking with your republican savior, im not saying that things would be different if we had a democrat for president, but instead if we would have just chosen the RIGHT man/woman for the job we wouldnt be in this situation.
People who vote purely republican or democrat are sheep.
thats all.

[CVD]

Thanks Tom, I feel dumber now. Without going one way or the other on the issue I can honestly say you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Halon]

Wow. CVD hit the nail on the head. So you expect US Presidents to be on the front lines? Good thinking. How many decades has it been since that's how things worked?

People die in war, what do you expect? Yes it's sad when soldiers die, but it is inevitable that we will suffer casualties in a time of war. It's the price we pay to live the way we do. There are things worth fighting, and dieing for. Soldiers know this when they voluntarily sign up, that there is a chance they may be called upon to fight for their country. Hell I was there, and I'm not pissed at the president. I don't know of anyone that was there with me, or any of my friends or co-workers that are still currently there, that are pissed with Bush about the war. Sometimes it seems like the ones who are the most pissed off, are the ones sitting in their air conditioned cubicles, e-bitching about it on the internet over their broadband cable connection. You're living next to sandy beaches, safe as can be, never stepped foot over there, but acting like this war is on your front door step threatening your safety. Shut off the damn TV and Fox News, and get your ass over there and see first hand what is going on. Look at the smiling faces on their faces with your own eyes, shake their hands, chat with them, work hand in hand with them, and find out how they feel about being free from Sadaam's control. And then form your opinion based on what you've have experienced and seen in person, and not what you've been fed.

[AJ]

I need to find the link again but when it comes to soldiers dying in war the facts usually show that for the total amount of men and women over seas more would likly to die in other accidents on the homefront via car accidents and other accidents.

Reading some of this makes me think about the protestors I just drove by at work. Since I work for a government contractor that supplies all the cool shit used to protect the soldiers (tank ammo to actual bullets to spy plane technology) we have a ground the protests at our building every wednesday. They are protesting with sign that say stop making mines. They are referring back to when the copyany was under another name and produced land mines that where linked to accidental deaths of non combatants. It's unfortunate that that may of happened, but the actual use was not in the control of said company. We haven't made them for about a decade, but they don't seem to get this through their head.

Plain and simple, there is alot of missing facts and opinionated statements in this whole thread. I don't see any links to factual information, just hear say and it can all be taken with a grain of salt in my eyes.

Last item... Thanks again to people like Brandon and other who are have and are putting their lives on the line for those of us in the greatest country in the world.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by CVD

Thanks Tom, I feel dumber now. Without going one way or the other on the issue I can honestly say you have no idea what you are talking about.

No one told you to read it. Open your eyes and maybe you will see...

[Halon]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

No one told you to read it. Open your eyes and maybe you will see...

Oh, you mean hop on the couch and flip on Fox9 @ 9 and eat up whatever they feed you? It's on TV, it's gotta be true!

[xveganxcowboyx]

Originally Posted by ju-on

Oh, you mean hop on the couch and flip on Fox9 @ 9 and eat up whatever they feed you? It's on TV, it's gotta be true!

I actually had a woman say that the other day. We started a conversation about hunting and agricultural trends. I started to say something about "if you look at the statistics on..." She immediately assumed I'd disagree with her and got defensive and said "Hey, I know the facts too. I watch TV!"

The conversation ended right there.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by DSMStyle

I need to find the link again but when it comes to soldiers dying in war the facts usually show that for the total amount of men and women over seas more would likly to die in other accidents on the homefront via car accidents and other accidents.

Reading some of this makes me think about the protestors I just drove by at work. Since I work for a government contractor that supplies all the cool shit used to protect the soldiers (tank ammo to actual bullets to spy plane technology) we have a ground the protests at our building every wednesday. They are protesting with sign that say stop making mines. They are referring back to when the copyany was under another name and produced land mines that where linked to accidental deaths of non combatants. It's unfortunate that that may of happened, but the actual use was not in the control of said company. We haven't made them for about a decade, but they don't seem to get this through their head.

Plain and simple, there is alot of missing facts and opinionated statements in this whole thread. I don't see any links to factual information, just hear say and it can all be taken with a grain of salt in my eyes.

Last item... Thanks again to people like Brandon and other who are have and are putting their lives on the line for those of us in the greatest country in the world.

Here ya go

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by ju-on

Oh, you mean hop on the couch and flip on Fox9 @ 9 and eat up whatever they feed you? It's on TV, it's gotta be true!

Channel 9 isnt Fox.

[CVD]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

No one told you to read it. Open your eyes and maybe you will see...

See what?? That was the most uneducated stance I have seen on any issue in a long time. All of your points were either incorrect or did not support your conclusion.

All I ask is for people to educate themselves before they argue with others.

[Jakey]

Originally Posted by CVD

All I ask is for people to educate themselves before they argue with others.

Liberals do not know how to do that. I think Tom needs to listen to Rush Limbaugh (sp?) for an afternoon.

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Channel 9 isnt Fox.

It is now.

[Matt D.]

My question to Tom is: Have you voted? Did you vote on Tuesday? Unless you have, which as far as we know you haven't, your arguments/feelings/statements that are political in nature have absolutely no clout.