Gas Prices

[LightningGSX]

Few more things-
1. The 11 OPEC nations are only responsible for 40% of the entire worlds oil production, I would hardly consider that a monopoly.

2. If I'm not mistaken, the greatest percentage of oil imported comes from Canada, not Iraq or any other middle eastern or OPEC nation.

3. Europe uses different methods for calculating octane(RON vs. the US RON+MON/2) , 95 octane in Europe, is the equivalent of 87 octane in the US.

4. Its Toluene not Toulene.And at $7-$8 a gallon, which only raises octane ~1.5-2 points at 10% toluene/90% gas, that doesn't seem to economical.

[A//// Guy]

LightningGSX- :jammin:

[JET]

1. OPEC is actually less than that. If you include AOPEC and the Persian Gulf, you come out to ~40%. Russia is one of the largest exporters and Mexico is also pretty large. OPEC is the price leader though. If they change, the others do too (for the most part). Many industries are like that and it is called a shared monopoly. The problem is that we are at 88% of oil production for the world. We are getting close to max. The oil consumption is still rising rapidly too. I think prices are going to rise rapidly as we get close to max.

2. Canada doesn't produce hardly any excess oil besides what they use. It is roughly 1 mil barrels per month.

4. Toluene is also a good alternative. Toluene can be had much cheaper than what you listed. Some have found it for $2.50/gal. I haven't found it that cheap, but it was $3.80/gal. It is 114 octane and is a large component of race gas. 30% toluene plus 70% 92 octane will give you 98.5 octane. Sounds like fun on a weekend to me! That would average out to $2.68/gal if you use $2.20 for 92 octane. The best thing is, it is unleaded!

[LightningGSX]

According to the DOE(US Department of Energy) as of March 2004, we import more crude oil from Canada, than we do from any other single nation, like 1.583 million barrels PER DAY.Same is true for total petroleum, 2.087 million barrels PER DAY, from Canada.

Of all the profits made from oil, OPEC recieves the smallest share, like 1/3.So to say they are directly responsible for gas prices is BS.Like I said on the previous page, importing governments and the transportation companies make(by far) the most profit from oil.If our government, the transport companies, and their insurance companies didn't make so much, gas prices would be cheap regardless of what OPEC charges.

[JET]

I have never said that OPEC sets gas prices. They are the pricing leader for crude oil. They set the price and pretty much everyone else follows. It works the same in many other industries.

The problem with Canada's oil is that it is a heavy crude. Read this for more info:

Canadian oil

[LightningGSX]

Originally posted by JET@May 23 2004, 03:36 PM
I have never said that OPEC sets gas prices.  They are the pricing leader for crude oil.  They set the price and pretty much everyone else follows.  It works the same in many other industries. 

The problem with Canada's oil is that it is a heavy crude.  Read this for more info:

Canadian oil

I never said you did, my point was OPEC is not at fault for our gas prices.

On a side note, E85 is the way to go, its at least 95 and up to 105 octane, and was 80 cents a gallon in Woodbury as of yesterday.Considering most of you guys are already modding your DSMs, doing a conversion to E85 wouldn't be too hard.And the best part is you are supporting american farmers, not oil producing countries

[JDM]

Originally posted by unreal808@May 20 2004, 09:57 PM
I just did my third drive off!! ha ha ha :fworld: thanks for the lic plates Raptor Ha Ha Ha. :3gears: .......j/k

Hope you're joking. :secret:

[JET]

Eric, I agree that E85 is a good alternative. I would be curious to see if the higher octane would allow you to run enough boost to make up for the lack of energy in the E85. It does come out similar though, because stoicheometric for ethanol is 9:1 vs. 14.7:1 for gas. So you burn 66% more ethanol to make the same amount of power in gas.

The other cool thing is that ethanol has a very high latent heat of vaporization (it will run much cooler). This should allow for more timing and to make more power. I should have big enough injectors to try and do this on pump (950's). I might try a 50/50 mix and go from there.

[LightningGSX]

The extra 15% gas bumps the stoich up to 10:1, and I believe the OEMs and the university teams(that converted vehicles to e-85) found the best results at 10.7:1.I've also read that the 15% gas reduces the energy difference to 27%, so e-85 only contains 27% less than normal fuel.

The only thing I'm concerned about is the potential problems with fuel lines, rails, etc.E-85 is somewhat corrosive and also conducts electricity(gas does not), so that can lead to galvanic reactions in aluminum and you have to make sure the fuel pump is electrically shielded.Rubber seals need to be swapped over to teflon(or similar) also.I'm all over it though, I want to be running e-85 in the next couple weeks.

[2003eclipse]

run e 85?

[illz]

2 or 3 years ago ecoli told me about a guy he knew around here that ran e85. said he had to dump a ton of extra gas to run at similar power levels, but i believe the story ended in the guy blowing his motor so he didn't have much more to report. it's been forever, but maybe e still knows the guy

[LightningGSX]

With a well thought out E85 setup, you'd only be using 25%-30% more fuel.Alcohol fuels have others benefits as well, JET mentioned some.Bottomline- 80 cents a gallon for 95-105(seasonal) octane E85 vs. $2.20 for 92 octane gas makes it definately worth a try(for me at least)

[JET]

Actually the E85 only runs $.10 - $.20 cheaper than regular gas. That $.85/gal thing over the weekend was just a promotion for the weekend. There is talk about adding more E85 incentives, so you may see the price drop on it in the future.

My physics class had the idea to run cars off of compressed hydrogen. I wonder how that would work?

[LightningGSX]

Originally posted by 1991-talon-fan@May 25 2004, 11:57 PM
My physics class had the idea to run cars off of compressed hydrogen. I wonder how that would work?

I've heard of vehicles using hydrogen as a supplement to increase gas mileage, but I don't think it would be too practical as the main fuel.It would be great though, since all you have to do is throw a couple of electrodes into water to produce it.

[LightningGSX]

Originally posted by JET@May 25 2004, 05:00 PM
Actually the E85 only runs $.10 - $.20 cheaper than regular gas. That $.85/gal thing over the weekend was just a promotion for the weekend. There is talk about adding more E85 incentives, so you may see the price drop on it in the future.

I heard it was 80 cents a gallon on the news the other night, I didn't realize it was just a promotion.Anyway, from reading info on the various Corn Growers Associations websites, I get the impression the price has no where to go but down.

[illz]

Originally posted by 1991-talon-fan@May 25 2004, 11:57 PM
My physics class had the idea to run cars off of compressed hydrogen. I wonder how that would work?

ask all the survivors of the hindenburg

[Matt D.]

Originally posted by illz+May 26 2004, 02:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (illz @ May 26 2004, 02:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-1991-talon-fan@May 25 2004, 11:57 PM
My physics class had the idea to run cars off of compressed hydrogen. I wonder how that would work?

ask all the survivors of the hindenburg [/b][/quote]
Oh, the humanity! hmy:

[MATCHBX]

Anybody notice the drop in gas prices over the past few days? I think it's dropped about 20 cents in the past week. So now everyone can quit their bitchin!!! It's down to $1.97 for 87 octane now here in Burnsville. Granted we can't run that but ours is down in price as well.

[AJ]

yeah the amaco off 212 / 62 was 1.99 this morning and the SA down the street was 2.07 still. Gas will just be like this all summer. Up and down, up and down. Like a good girl