GheyrodX - bigger, fatter, gheyer!

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by Rmondoh

Such an epic post and you failed to mentioned that your good buddy Rmondoh took awesome pictures for you but most importantly, you didn't comment on the tune/ride on your ride back home!! EPIC FAIL!

Now for some random comments on things throughout the day:

1. This is for Scheides' comment above regarding the 3port and AP. Kracka thinks that the reason why the gains are so drastically different is because the 10's ECU just DOES NOT like MBCs. He told me that he fiddled with boost, timing, etc and he just couldn't make it any better.

3. As for MAP's o2/dp, there needs to be a slight tweak on it. The o2 bung needs to be moved to the original location. The place where it is now is not very good. Here's some pictures.

4. Now I fell asleep watching TV ~10pm and just woke up and found that this thread was posted (along with a text from Kracka). Having read and looked at the graphs and having the adrenaline high wear off so that I'm thinking more clearly now, I'm not sure if the o2/dp is worth it. Don't get me wrong, I love that it made gains and I was just as excited as Kracka to see the results, but we need ONE more test to see what the real difference is. Hear me out...

Discussing (well listening on my part) with Chris@Cobb about the o2/dp, Cobb says that the restriction is not the o2 housing but the downpipe portion itself. That is the reason why Cobb only makes the downpipe section and not the entire o2/dp. Looking at the gains between stock o2/dp vs MAP's o2/dp, I wonder how much is actually provided by the o2 eliminator and divorced design. The gains are small enough to where going from the stock downpipe diameter of 2.5" (or whatever it is) to a full 3" MAY BE the difference that provided the gains and not necessarily the o2 elim part. MAP's o2/dp does have a wider diameter downpipe as well and the whole thing really is a 3" pipe from turbo outlet to testpipe flange. However maybe the o2 housing bellmouth flows just as well given how it was designed. Just something to consider. Maybe Cobb DID do their research correctly. Thoughts on this?

Perhaps Chris@Cobb might be willing to do another super awesome deal to someone willing to lend their car for some testing. Hmm...

HA! Sorry man, Janelle was rushing me to come to bed so I whipped the above post out as quick as I could. I really do appreciate you taking all the pictures, your willingness to always discuss setups, and of course your impeccable choice in tacos!

Drive home impressions: WOW! The car is a whole new beast now, can't believe I've left this much on the table since July! The car runs awesome smooth, but it really kicks you in the pants now when the turbo gets going. It's reminding me more of the original Gheyrod

1. That's my theory at least. Cobb seems to agree. Calvin did a great job with the boost control via the Grimspeed though. My favorite part is at peak torque though, nearly identical boost and AFR, but +59 wtq!!! That is such an incredible gain it's insane!

3. Agreed. It is rubbing on the chassis at idle; very stupid placement that I will be talking with MAP about. There is no reason not to locate it with stock orientation at 12 o'clock. Other than that though, what an awesome piece! Perfect fitment and clearance everywhere else. Solid gains across the entire curve, torque and horsepower! I was quite surprised at how much tweaking the tune needed to compensate for the o2/downpipe.

4. I too am curious about this. My guess is we could talk Chris @ Cobb (Plano locations manager) into doing this test on your car. Their downpipe and a few quick tweaks to your tune and we'd have solid answers vs. stock and vs. my o2 elim dp. I'm all for any type of hard dyno data possible and would be very interested to see the results; might as well be on your car

[simulatedwood]

WOOT!

Congratulations Chris, very impressive, those are some solid numbers! I bet this car feels completely different now. Enjoy this thing! COBB FTW!

Just to share, the AMS o2/dp addition on my car, required a a bunch of retuning as well to keep the boost control in check.

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by simulatedwood

Just to share, the AMS o2/dp addition on my car, required a a bunch of retuning as well to keep the boost control in check.

You should have seen the amount of black smoke that poured out of the car on the first pull with the o2/dp. The dyno room was in a haze and so was outside! I definitely wouldn't install one on a car without a retune.

[Rmondoh]

Originally Posted by Kracka

You should have seen the amount of black smoke that poured out of the car on the first pull with the o2/dp. The dyno room was in a haze and so was outside! I definitely wouldn't install one on a car without a retune.

I have never seen THAT MUCH black smoke in my life! If any of you ever watched the TV Show "Lost", the amount of smoke that came from Chris' car made the Black Smoke Monster look like a pu$$y.

[mlomker]

Originally Posted by Rmondoh

the 10's ECU just DOES NOT like MBCs. He told me that he fiddled with boost, timing, etc and he just couldn't make it any better.

No comment, just a laugh.

However maybe the o2 housing bellmouth flows just as well given how it was designed.

Even if the results were equal I'd still do the o2/dp. The stock housing weighs a ton.

[scheides]

I think there is something to be said about position of the wastegate flapper and the power difference. I need to find the overlay, but gheyrodX and beaterX had nearly identical setups save for the wgacrank mod and beaterX blew gheyrodX out of the water in torque/midrange and just a wee bit up top. I'm guessing something with how a MBC actually delivers air to the wga vs how a BCS does is what causes some of these gains: the MBC may cause a bit more open/closing of the wga and thus hurting flow. Doing the wgacrank mod with a MBC must help keep the wga in a more optimal position.

I'll find that overlay if I can, or do you have it hughes?

As far as the downpipe/o2 elim goes I think I have two big beefs with the stock setup:
1) weight. The stock o2 housing specifically must weigh 30 pounds itself. Just redonk!
2) It is a tight 'questionmark' type bend that I think on a stock turbo is mostly fine save for the outlet. IIRC the stock o2 housing necks down right at its outlet. On an aftermarket, stock-frame turbo I think there is no question that the stock o2 housing (even with a 3" downpipe) would not be adequate, especially if you were running alky/e85 trying to push the setup. I saw huge gains just on pump gas with the BBX.

Overall I am just pumped you have the car to a whole new level. Good thing you're in a place you can enjoy it, there's almost a foot of snow on the ground up here!

[Kracka]

Originally Posted by mlomker

Even if the results were equal I'd still do the o2/dp. The stock housing weighs a ton.

Originally Posted by scheides

The stock o2 housing specifically must weigh 30 pounds itself.

Overall I am just pumped you have the car to a whole new level.

weight comparison
stock o2 housing & downpipe: 14.8 lbs.
MAP o2 elim dp: 8.2 lbs.

Thanks Scheides! I too am so freakin' pumped with the car now it's insane! Driving it really is a whole new machine.

[Rmondoh]

Originally Posted by Kracka

weight comparison
stock o2 housing & downpipe: 14.8 lbs.
MAP o2 elim dp: 8.2 lbs.

Wow, 6 lbs is the difference? That's interesting. It felt like a lot more than that.

Logically, I would agree with Scheides on going with a bigger turbo would mean you have to go with a new o2/dp. However, for a stock frame turbo...I'm not so sure. Despite the test, I still want to believe that an o2/dp would work better even on a stock frame turbo as opposed to just the downpipe. I just looked at AMS' website and they claim a 15whp gain over stock with their o2/dp. Chris picked up 9 whp so 15 may be possible with a bit more aggressive tune. I think the gain with any o2/dp or just downpipe will fall in the 8-12 whp range (just my personal guess ).

I'll have to get a hold of Chris @ Cobb to see if we can work out some type of deal. I'm definitely interested in what their downpipe may yield by retaining the stock o2 housing.

[Murlo26]

Congrats Kracka...happy to see you are getting the car up to snuff (well your likings )

[Kracka]

I did a 1st - 4th gear pull leaving the airport tonight and I seriously just about pulled over to have sex with the car...it rips! Stock turbo/pump gas FTW!

BTW, they're installing E85 pumps at a station that's on my way to work. Not hinting at anything, just sayin' If my stock fuel injectors/pump could support E85 on my current setup it could be fun having alt. maps. Cobb's standard setup for E85 X's are DW850's and an in-tank Bosch pump.

I also popped a CEL (P0140 - rear o2 sensor) on the drive home and within 5 minutes Kevin/Calvin had a new ROM in my inbox...not too shabby considering it's Sunday and the Cowboys game is on.

[Rmondoh]

Originally Posted by Kracka

I also popped a CEL (P0140 - rear o2 sensor) on the drive home and within 5 minutes Kevin/Calvin had a new ROM in my inbox...not too shabby considering it's Sunday and the Cowboys game is on.

Customer Service doesn't get ANY better than that...just wow.

[GG_9_SE]

Originally Posted by Kracka

BTW, they're installing E85 pumps at a station that's on my way to work. Not hinting at anything, just sayin' If my stock fuel injectors/pump could support E85 on my current setup it could be fun having alt. maps.

I never in my life thought i would hear these words come from your mouth

[mlomker]

Originally Posted by GG_9_SE

I never in my life thought i would hear these words come from your mouth

It's also impossible to switch back once you've had E85 on stock turbo. The torque is a drug.

[scheides]

Originally Posted by mlomker

It's also impossible to switch back once you've had E85 on stock turbo. The torque is a drug.

TRUF!

[turbotalon1g]

He hit it right on the nose, its like back in the day with race gas, but affordable and available

[Rmondoh]

Figured I'd post some favorites from my picture set for everyone even though a couple were posted already!

Hello shiny ceramic coated MAP o2 elim downpipe!



This is Chris taking a picture of some weird alien device in his car.


If only that GT-R would have been white...


Who can forget the antics of Tom


And of course the post would not be complete without me showing off my car next to Chris @ Cobb's car

[Kracka]

I'm picking up catback #3 for the car today...

[Rmondoh]

Let's hope that fixes your rattle issue!

[Kracka]

Cobb catback installed! Fits much better; a lot more clearance plus less bends and non-baffled/chambered muffler.

[Matt D.]

Cobb is to Kracka as Buscher is to Scheides.