HID retrofit discussion

[sleepydsm]

Are the fire related issues more to do with the housing the bulbs are put into, versus the bulbs/kits themselves? I see a lot of aftermarket headlights that say "NOT FOR HID." A friend's 2002 3 series BMW burnt to the ground with aftermarket headlights and HIDs.


His actual car!

[Kracka]

The problem is, non-HID equipped from the factory cars don't have housings designed to withstand the added heat of HID bulbs which can cause melted housings or worse as mentioned above. I've also heard of fires due to faulty/low-quality wiring. How comprehensive is the 18-month warranty and if something were to happen would someone be there to stand behind the product and cover the related damage? Most people of course never experience any negative side effects but it never hurts to be informed just in case you're one of the unlucky few.

[mx3twinturbo]

Originally Posted by Kracka

The problem is, non-HID equipped from the factory cars don't have housings designed to withstand the added heat of HID bulbs which can cause melted housings or worse as mentioned above. I've also heard of fires due to faulty/low-quality wiring. How comprehensive is the 18-month warranty and if something were to happen would someone be there to stand behind the product and cover the related damage? Most people of course never experience any negative side effects but it never hurts to be informed just in case you're one of the unlucky few.

please read above post.

[munchgsx]

Do you know of a good housing for the DSM specifically 1G? Also is the stock housing ok?

[mx3twinturbo]

Do you mean Headlight Housing? or is this for a flip up headlight?

[munchgsx]

Originally Posted by mx3twinturbo

Do you mean Headlight Housing? or is this for a flip up headlight?

Housing, B body.

[turbotalon1g]

That is scary shit, I will keep my reg. headlights.

[joem]

No shit me too.
Joe

[mdost03]

Most of the fire-related incidents involving HID I have heard was started by too small of wiring to handle them. I put some plug and play HID kit on my old eclipse using ebay projectors and never had any problems. I bought a wiring kit though that used bigger gauge wiring.

[mx3twinturbo]

Originally Posted by Kracka

Have you tested these HID's before? Any local customers running them for an extended period of time? I've heard a lot of horror stories of cheap kits burning down cars and that's the one thing keeping me from converting.

In response to...
"I've heard a lot of horror stories of cheap kits burning down cars and that's the one thing keeping me from converting."
Most of the horror stories you have heard about the "cheap kits"
are attributed to poor wiring done by inexperienced users.
The other portion of the stories come from users who don't have a plug and play kit, and use a model of bulb that does not fit correctly in the bulbs slot and use whatever means they have i.e. super-glue/tape/zip-ties/ect.
to mount the bulbs, I have seen this may of times the bulb gets loose and contacts the plastic headlight assembly and there you have it a fire.
no good.

I took it upon myself to test if HID's burn hotter than incandescent bulbs..
Here are some photos from my test.
I took 3 surface temp. samples from each style bulb.
Each test utilized the shops beater 626, engine running,
Each photo was taken from the initial start of bulb,waiting 10 min,then waiting another 10 min.

The first set of photos are with the incandescent bulb.
The second set of photos are of the HID bulb







Results...
incandescent bulb(9006)
*surface temp #1 -857 degrees
*surface temp #2 -913 degrees
*surface temp #3- 970 degrees
HID Bulb(H7)
*surface temp #1 -658 degrees
*surface temp #2 -738 degrees
*surface temp #3 -823 degrees

Conclusion:
HID's run cooler than Incandescent's

[FattyBoomBatty]

Originally Posted by mx3twinturbo

Results...
incandescent bulb(9006)
*surface temp #1 -857 degrees
*surface temp #2 -913 degrees
*surface temp #3- 970 degrees
HID Bulb(H7)
*surface temp #1 -658 degrees
*surface temp #2 -738 degrees
*surface temp #3 -823 degrees

Conclusion:
HID's run cooler than Incandescent's

I need to question this method of measurement. Did you use an optical temp sensor, like infrared stuff? If so, this can't possible represent the actual temperature of the surface, you could just as well be measuring the temp of the filament in the incandescants, and the gas or whatever it is in the HID's. You need a non-optical reading for surface temps of glass.

My guess is that it will be very different (lower for both). If my headlights are reaching 900 degrees, my car would have caught fire a long time ago.

And it was already addressed, but I would think poor wiring would be the culprit, not the bulbs or ballasts themselves.

[mx3twinturbo]

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

I need to question this method of measurement. Did you use an optical temp sensor, like infrared stuff? If so, this can't possible represent the actual temperature of the surface, you could just as well be measuring the temp of the filament in the incandescants, and the gas or whatever it is in the HID's. You need a non-optical reading for surface temps of glass.

My guess is that it will be very different (lower for both). If my headlights are reaching 900 degrees, my car would have caught fire a long time ago.

And it was already addressed, but I would think poor wiring would be the culprit, not the bulbs or ballasts themselves.

agreed to the point of accuracy, just to prove the point that the HID bulbs run cooler,

[mx3twinturbo]

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

I need to question this method of measurement. Did you use an optical temp sensor, like infrared stuff? If so, this can't possible represent the actual temperature of the surface, you could just as well be measuring the temp of the filament in the incandescants, and the gas or whatever it is in the HID's. You need a non-optical reading for surface temps of glass.

My guess is that it will be very different (lower for both). If my headlights are reaching 900 degrees, my car would have caught fire a long time ago.

And it was already addressed, but I would think poor wiring would be the culprit, not the bulbs or ballasts themselves.

agreed to the point of accuracy, just to prove the point that the HID bulbs run cooler,

[mx3twinturbo]

When products are labeled with "no HID" the products lens assembly is correctly matched to the light output of a regular bulb, when a HID is installed the lens basically fractures the light incorrectly making you "beam pattern" worse, and also blinding oncoming drivers making it unsafe for others and you.
It typically has nothing to do with bulb temp, HID bulbs create less heat than a conventional (incandescent) bulb.
and to prove this I did the test stated above.

[blageo23]

So HID will NOT cause a fire. They run cooler and they draw less current.
If the wires for the stock headlights can handle the 55W halogen bulbs they will beable to handle the 35W HID bulbs with ease.
So if you purchase a plug and play HID kit then there should be no worries.
But throw in some crappy wiring job by a hack with a non plug and play HID kit and flames away.

In Jareds case, who knows what happend, Maybe it was not made for his car and he wired it up wrong.

[mdost03]

Originally Posted by blageo23

So HID will NOT cause a fire. They run cooler and they draw less current.
If the wires for the stock headlights can handle the 55W halogen bulbs they will beable to handle the 35W HID bulbs with ease.
So if you purchase a plug and play HID kit then there should be no worries.
But throw in some crappy wiring job by a hack with a non plug and play HID kit and flames away.

In Jareds case, who knows what happend, Maybe it was not made for his car and he wired it up wrong.

I disagree.

When you go to ignite the HID bulb, the current can double or even triple the amount needed compared to when it's completely on. This load can, over time, melt the wiring jacket around the stock wiring. This happens so fast that it will not blow the fuse. That is why you should install larger gauge wiring hooked up the battery and use a relay to tap into the existing wiring for the headlights.

[clean2g]

Originally Posted by totaleclipse_05

I disagree.

When you go to ignite the HID bulb, the current can double or even triple the amount needed compared to when it's completely on. This load can, over time, melt the wiring jacket around the stock wiring. This happens so fast that it will not blow the fuse. That is why you should install larger gauge wiring hooked up the battery and use a relay to tap into the existing wiring for the headlights.

I concur. I purchased a solid plug and play kit from the guy that sells on the NSX forums (the name of the company slips my mind at the moment), and the instructions specifically say that the ballasts require more current, especially during initial ignition. The wiring harness was well built with thick and insulated wires, and they specifically say to wire the ground and positive straight to the battery because they need a clean and strong connection. I thought about purchasing the cheaper kits, but I'm glad I spent a little more to get something with legitimate quality. So far I'm happy, and nothing has melted in my stock housing so far. I think the heat problems have a lot to do with how well the kit is made as others have stated.

[mx3twinturbo]

I will post up a spec sheet on our product,
1 cold starting electricity 6.5-7.0A
2 stable electricity 3.5A/12V
3 hot starting electricity 3.6A/12V
4 stable power 35W
5 open circuit protection automatic protection in 1s
6 short circuit protection automatic protection in10s
7 over voltage protection automatic stop working reaching18v
8 low voltage protection automatic stop working reaching 8v
9 lighting test no ignition in 23kv anywhere
10 flashing test turn on and off in every second ,every time the bulbs can
11 aging test work continuously 24 hours normally
12 ignition test normal
13 high temperature test work normally reaching 105 centigrade
14 low temperature test work normally reaching minus 40 centigrade
15 waterproof dustproof test immerged in water for 12 hours,
16 anti-vibration test good
17 salt fog test good
18 anti-electromagnetism test meet regulation requirement
19 ignition voltage 23kv 20KV-23KV
20 time to stable in cold starting process 4s
21 isolation function ≥300megohm the power is isolated to outer shell≥300 megohm

if you need an explanation please ask.
Thanks,
Jesse

[Jakey]

Originally Posted by mx3twinturbo

I will post up a spec sheet on our product,
1 cold starting electricity 6.5-7.0A
2 stable electricity 3.5A/12V
3 hot starting electricity 3.6A/12V
4 stable power 35W
5 open circuit protection automatic protection in 1s
6 short circuit protection automatic protection in10s
7 over voltage protection automatic stop working reaching18v
8 low voltage protection automatic stop working reaching 8v
9 lighting test no ignition in 23kv anywhere
10 flashing test turn on and off in every second ,every time the bulbs can
11 aging test work continuously 24 hours normally
12 ignition test normal
13 high temperature test work normally reaching 105 centigrade
14 low temperature test work normally reaching minus 40 centigrade
15 waterproof dustproof test immerged in water for 12 hours,
16 anti-vibration test good
17 salt fog test good
18 anti-electromagnetism test meet regulation requirement
19 ignition voltage 23kv 20KV-23KV
20 time to stable in cold starting process 4s
21 isolation function ≥300megohm the power is isolated to outer shell≥300 megohm

if you need an explanation please ask.
Thanks,
Jesse

I have had a number of HIDs hooked up to an oscilloscope and have yet to ever see one with a startup current draw as low as mentioned in your post.

[mx3twinturbo]

Originally Posted by totaleclipse_05

I disagree.

When you go to ignite the HID bulb, the current can double or even triple the amount needed compared to when it's completely on. This load can, over time, melt the wiring jacket around the stock wiring. This happens so fast that it will not blow the fuse. That is why you should install larger gauge wiring hooked up the battery and use a relay to tap into the existing wiring for the headlights.

Looks like another test will be done tomorrow. ARGH! lol.