Standalones

[Iceman]

Right now im trying to figure out what standalone I want. Basicly I want a standalone so that i can fine tune the car and have more opions. Tunning is God, thats how i see it. So I want the best there easy but I also want something semi user friendly and not to hard to use. I have been more than concidering the AEM EMS. I hear good things, I hear bad things about it. I want to know what your thoughts on it are. I'm wondering if I should go with a none AEM Wideband (I hear bad things about). Or would it be best to stick with all AEM for tunning? Anyone that has it please speak up on how you like it and what not.

The big question is. Is it worth the money? If not than what is?

[1ViciousGSX]

For "all out" tuning go with the AEM or Haltec. DSMLink is another great option.

[Iceman]

Its going to be for a 1g. (i know you can convert it). I have windows 95 on a old ass labtop but not DOS which i hear you need to run haltec on right?

[JET]

Go with the AEM EMS. There are several of us around that have them and I haven't heard any complaints since the new software came out. The AEM also plugs right in. For a wideband I would not go with the AEM. I would check out the Techedge V2, that is what I have (my 2nd wideband). It uses the cheap VW sensors.

For a 2g I would go DSMlink, for a 1g AEM as long as you are willing to do some studying up on it.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Rambling long rant mode on:

Get the AEM EMS P&P if you really think you need one. It's going to be the easiest to install and use. It you are hardcore into weight reduction then look into a Haltech, Autronic, Motec, SDS, etc. AEM makes a race non-p&p version, but it's quite spendy compared to the P&P versions. The AEM is the best bang for the buck in my opinion. Some people like the SDS for simplicity and price, but I can't see spending all that money on a standalone that can't datalog.

What in your setup is going to require a standalone? You can go a long way with just an AFC and right size injectors or with DSMLink on the 2Gs. The amount of time that it takes to get a standalone running like a factory ECU car isn't for everyone. Don't expect to pull a Dre and make 500whp on pump gas just because you have a standalone either. He has been working with the GEMS/Pro-EFI/AEM EMS systems for a good 3 years. He also likes to make it out like his car is 100% reliable and not tell about all the headgaskets he has been through, how his motor eats a quart of oil every 400 miles and how he can't do a 4th gear pull on that tune without destroying his spark plugs.

BTW, if you think so highly of tuning, you might want to learn how to spell it right. Tunning is a different real word and has nothing to do with tuning a car.

There are 2 things that are more important than tuning for a car to make good power:

1. It needs to have a combination of the right parts for the power. You might want to look beyond the cheapest parts or past the biggest name parts. For example, the throttle body flanges on the Dejon tool upper i/c pipe are just way too thin to trust for a good seal. And the Greddy FMIC is a decent setup but it's components are bit of a compromise. A 1G BOV is cheap and then can hold a fair amount of boost when crushed, but some of them can be faulty to begin with and leak no matter what you try to do. You have to make compromises too, if you want to make 500whp expect to have to run a laggy turbo. Even with all the advances lately with ball-bearing and GT wheels they will still be some lag. And if you do make a super high flowing compressor wheel spool quickly it will probably just surge anyways.

2. It needs to be installed correctly with an attention to the small details. The simple shit like checking for and fixing boost leaks using an air compressor not a bicycle pump can make a huge difference in power. It doesn't matter how efficient your turbo is if it's leaking 5 psi to the atmosphere.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

It took me so long to type that 3 people posted before me. Since its a 1G, you can do pretty good with the chips out now and a 2G MAS and AFC.

[Iceman]

Originally posted by ecoli@Jan 11 2004, 04:44 PM
Rambling long rant mode on:

Get the AEM EMS P&P if you really think you need one. It's going to be the easiest to install and use. It you are hardcore into weight reduction then look into a Haltech, Autronic, Motec, SDS, etc. AEM makes a race non-p&p version, but it's quite spendy compared to the P&P versions. The AEM is the best bang for the buck in my opinion. Some people like the SDS for simplicity and price, but I can't see spending all that money on a standalone that can't datalog.

What in your setup is going to require a standalone? You can go a long way with just an AFC and right size injectors or with DSMLink on the 2Gs. The amount of time that it takes to get a standalone running like a factory ECU car isn't for everyone. Don't expect to pull a Dre and make 500whp on pump gas just because you have a standalone either. He has been working with the GEMS/Pro-EFI/AEM EMS systems for a good 3 years. He also likes to make it out like his car is 100% reliable and not tell about all the headgaskets he has been through, how his motor eats a quart of oil every 400 miles and how he can't do a 4th gear pull on that tune without destroying his spark plugs.

BTW, if you think so highly of tuning, you might want to learn how to spell it right. Tunning is a different real word and has nothing to do with tuning a car.

There are 2 things that are more important than tuning for a car to make good power:

1. It needs to have a combination of the right parts for the power. You might want to look beyond the cheapest parts or past the biggest name parts. For example, the throttle body flanges on the Dejon tool upper i/c pipe are just way too thin to trust for a good seal. And the Greddy FMIC is a decent setup but it's components are bit of a compromise. A 1G BOV is cheap and then can hold a fair amount of boost when crushed, but some of them can be faulty to begin with and leak no matter what you try to do. You have to make compromises too, if you want to make 500whp expect to have to run a laggy turbo. Even with all the advances lately with ball-bearing and GT wheels they will still be some lag. And if you do make a super high flowing compressor wheel spool quickly it will probably just surge anyways.

2. It needs to be installed correctly with an attention to the small details. The simple shit like checking for and fixing boost leaks using an air compressor not a bicycle pump can make a huge difference in power. It doesn't matter how efficient your turbo is if it's leaking 5 psi to the atmosphere.

Some good info in there. Lots of rambling at the end like you said... I don't plan on having my car run great. I understand it will take time to get the car running right an di understand that. Also whiling to wait. I know all about dre and how he melts sparkplugs and stuff. Than agian im not going for 500AWHP on pump gas. As for the installing of the car componts QPR is doing the big stuff for now. So i would hope they well do a good job. In the future i plan on running nirtous and what nots in a couple of years.

Jet do you got a link for the Wideband you use?

Anyone else got problems with the AEM wideband? If so what Wideband do you use?

[JET]

Here is the order page for the TechEdge. Their kit is very widely used. There are a few others that are similar, but I don't see as many people using them. You will want one that uses the Bosch LSU4 sensor, not the expensive NTK L1H1 sensor. The V2 also has internal datalogging, but that isn't of use for you.

[Iceman]

Originally posted by JET@Jan 11 2004, 07:36 PM
Here is the order page for the TechEdge. Their kit is very widely used. There are a few others that are similar, but I don't see as many people using them. You will want one that uses the Bosch LSU4 sensor, not the expensive NTK L1H1 sensor. The V2 also has internal datalogging, but that isn't of use for you.

Thanks

[Super Bleeder!!]

i think standalones are ghey unless its for an all-out race car. i saw so many 10 sec cars at the SO running vpcs, afcs, and maf trans that i made my decision then to never own one.
another thing, do you really think you could grasp working a device as complicated as this? i know jet and ryan were toying with the programs for the AEM months before they even got it.

don't be another example of too much money and too little brains. you can build a fast car w/o buying every expensive black box, a 2.4, or even rims!

[Iceman]

Originally posted by gixxer@Jan 11 2004, 11:17 PM
i think standalones are ghey unless its for an all-out race car. i saw so many 10 sec cars at the SO running vpcs, afcs, and maf trans that i made my decision then to never own one.
another thing, do you really think you could grasp working a device as complicated as this? i know jet and ryan were toying with the programs for the AEM months before they even got it.

don't be another example of too much money and too little brains. you can build a fast car w/o buying every expensive black box, a 2.4, or even rims!

Alright so you think i would have just as good luck or better tuning with what? I agree that I would have a hard time tuning it.

[Super Bleeder!!]

a 2g maf, VPC, or gm maf. people have consistantly made good power with them. i heard the next version of the gm maf trans will have an afc like feature built in, much more resolution than the current version

[Goat Blower]

Get a VPC, people are selling them cheap used these days and there's only three knobs to get in trouble with. Plus you get rid of that stupid MAF shit.

[Iceman]

Originally posted by gixxer@Jan 11 2004, 11:40 PM
a 2g maf, VPC, or gm maf. people have consistantly made good power with them. i heard the next version of the gm maf trans will have an afc like feature built in, much more resolution than the current version

I'm thinking MAFT and 3" GM MAF. Wideband, pocketlogger. Need something to control Timming though.

[Super Bleeder!!]

Originally posted by Iceman@Jan 11 2004, 11:51 PM
Need something to control Timming though.

ah, yes. delicious timming

[MustGoFaster]

With the chips that are now available with fuel correction, maf correction, ect. ect. ect. I don't plan on owning an AEM for a while, maybe never who knows. It wasn't hard to get john's car to make power. The hard part is/was idle, knock noise setup (mainly cause he had a noisier engine, with extremely conservative settings I/we could get the noise table to look like other people's, even on C16, but we ran it rather noisy and when the head came off, absolutely no sings of knock) It is life easier if you keep it simple. I plan on it. And yes, if you get one you MUST RTFM!

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

Originally posted by gixxer+Jan 12 2004, 01:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gixxer @ Jan 12 2004, 01:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Iceman@Jan 11 2004, 11:51 PM
Need something to control Timming though.

ah, yes. delicious timming [/b][/quote]
I want to control timming 'cause I want to do some major tunning too...

[niterydr]

Tuning is the key to unlocking power, but just because the system is easy to use, doesn't mean it will get you the most power. The aftermarket controller/standalone market is flooded with systems, not enough techs. Nearly all systems have problems, you just have to pick your poision.
Either way, in the end the car WILL haul out, its just which system do you want?
mas setup/afc combo:
pro: Great street combo, basic, fairly user friendly.
con: not as adjustible as most fuel controllers, can't control timing, can't control rev-limiter, can't datalog internally.
So now we have maft ($300) and afc (300), now we add a timing controller (many available, range in prices, for ease we'll say $300). now we add a eprom ecu, btw andy, how is that search going? so we can run a tmo or whatever they call them now. I think that upgrade is also $300. Pretty sweet now we have piggy backs on piggy backs on a hacked ecu, all for 1200+and no datalogging.
Or we go standalone:
aem or haltech, both have user support, both have problems, both cost over 1k.
vpc+fuel controller (fine tune)+ ignition timing, still spendy.
The entire point is tuning can be done, is just what do you want to deal with? If I were to run piggy's i'd go emanage with maft. That gives you ignition timing, fuel control, and a larger mas. Standalone, as much as I don't like them, problem AEM.
Just my $.02, just like everyones.
Oh and welcome to the spelling bee,::flame suit::, jimmy cracked corn and I don't care if its misspelled.

[SlowWhite]

My opinion on the Stand alone system. is this

For my 2G I wish I could go back and get the DSMLINK back when I first got my car. It opened my eyes to so much more then just EGT Temps and SAFC controls.

However I'm one of those people that has the laptop running each time I go out.

I love it because of the wide range of things I can do with it. Not just Fuel/Timing controls.

I can log almost any thing on my car. And because of that it allowed me to find several faults in my Set up. From running 115% IDC on my RC 550's running 20psi on pump gas, to High intake temps.

Plus it has the Stutterbox and NLTS Capabilities which I'm loving.

At all times I'm logging/watching:
-timing, knock,IDC, A/F Ratio, HP, RPMS. FRONT 02,Int Temp,Cool Temp,LTFT LO, LTFT, Air Flow lbs/mn, AirFlow g/s, AirFlow per Rev g/rev , LTFT Mid.

Anycase I say a stand alone is something that no matter what HP. Is a useful tool that's well worth the money and won't be a waiste.

-Brian

[1Fst14B]

first of all, im cusious how your injectors are open for more than 100% of the time?

Standalones must do wonder's to injectors