Pump Gas Turbos

Iceman · 12-31-2003

Alright so in time to come i'm going to be looking to get a new turbo. Now my feature car well almost always be running on 92 oct without ethnal or 93 with. Now which gas would be better? I personally think my car hauls more with 92 w/ out ethanal.

On the turbo idea im thinking of a 50trim seeing as dre put down 500 FWHP on a green with a 8cm2. I have yet to see a time slip from him but yeah. I have also seen a high 11 put down on a 56 trim i belive... or was it a 60-1 either way im open to suggestions.

I'm open to any turbos.... this would be more for 1/4 use than autox so lag isn't to much of a problem.

This would be for a 4g64.

niterydr · 12-31-2003

Got to get one bigger than john's don't you?
It really comes down to what you want to run on the street, the various wheel sizes have varying compressor effeciency's, also spool-up and overall power is drastically effected by exhaust housing a/r and wheel size. Also, if your building a street car, how much power do you want? and for how much rpm?
galantvr41062 ran a to4e 60 trim t3/t4 with .82 exhaust a/r. He put down around 420whp and ran 11.66@122mph on 93 octane in his galant this year.
Give a list of what you want, and lets come up with some answers.

Iceman · 12-31-2003

I want mid-high 11's on pumpgas and i want to be able to run that all day. No nitrous or anything like that. Its going to be a street car. I would like around 450 FWHP on pump. I would like to see full power around 7k RPM even though it doesn't matter. I'm not looking to spend a ass load of money on the turbo set-up but i would like to reach those goals. I'm not in compention with anyone here on whos faster. I could careless whos faster really.

I got a question about say a FP3065. I know its a bigger turbo and has a much bigger exh a/r than a reg 50trim. What i want to know is would i be able to get more HP from the FP3065 or the 50trim (or any other trubo not just the 50trim). I know that even a 2.4L wouldn't be able to make the 65 see full boost by 4k like the 50trim or whatever which i relise.

Want any more information or is this good josh?

BTW you guys still got that 4g64?

niterydr · 12-31-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Iceman@Dec 31 2003, 09:46 AM
I want mid-high 11's on pumpgas and i want to be able to run that all day. No nitrous or anything like that. Its going to be a street car. I would like around 450 FWHP on pump. I would like to see full power around 7k RPM even though it doesn't matter. I'm not looking to spend a ass load of money on the turbo set-up but i would like to reach those goals. I'm not in compention with anyone here on whos faster. I could careless whos faster really.

I got a question about say a FP3065. I know its a bigger turbo and has a much bigger exh a/r than a reg 50trim. What i want to know is would i be able to get more HP from the FP3065 or the 50trim (or any other trubo not just the 50trim). I know that even a 2.4L wouldn't be able to make the 65 see full boost by 4k like the 50trim or whatever which i relise.

Want any more information or is this good josh?

BTW you guys still got that 4g64?

let us know and we'll grab one for you from one of our local sources.
Stop by the shop sometime, we'll go over it :toast:
the key to massive power on pump gas is effeciency and size.

Iceman · 12-31-2003

I might be by later. I'll call before i come by.

john · 12-31-2003

Johns 11.66 was pump gas??? WOW. That is hauling ass. Any turbo that you are talking about 50 trim, 60-1, 56 trim are all capable of 11's. If I were you, I would get the 56 trim with a 2.4. Good luck on that 450 whp on pump though.

**Goat Blower** · 12-31-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by niterydr+Dec 31 2003, 09:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (niterydr @ Dec 31 2003, 09:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Iceman@Dec 31 2003, 09:46 AM
I want mid-high 11's on pumpgas and i want to be able to run that all day.  No nitrous or anything like that.  Its going to be a street car.  I would like around 450 FWHP on pump.  I would like to see full power around 7k RPM even though it doesn't matter.  I'm not looking to spend a ass load of money on the turbo set-up but i would like to reach those goals.  I'm not in compention with anyone here on whos faster.  I could careless whos faster really.

I got a question about say a FP3065.  I know its a bigger turbo and has a much bigger exh a/r than a reg 50trim.  What i want to know is would i be able to get more HP from the FP3065 or the 50trim (or any other trubo not just the 50trim).  I know that even a 2.4L wouldn't be able to make the 65 see full boost by 4k like the 50trim or whatever which i relise.

Want any more information or is this good josh?

BTW you guys still got that 4g64?

let us know and we'll grab one for you from one of our local sources.
Stop by the shop sometime, we'll go over it :toast:
the key to massive power on pump gas is effeciency and size. [/b][/quote]
Don't be taking all the 2.4's from your "local source".

Leave me one, I might have to prep for something big in May.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-31-2003

Dre did not make 500whp on a Green. He has switched turbos once or twice since the Green. He is running a 50-trim though, but it is some secret spec. It seems like it must have a very free flowing/large exhaust side which would help make power on pump gas, but makes it spool about 500RPMs slower than his 50-trim Green did.

What turbo do you have now?

Iceman · 12-31-2003

Right now i have a little shit snail... (car is still for sale BTW)

Please don't say its to big of a jump for me.

MustGoFaster · 12-31-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Iceman@Dec 31 2003, 12:33 PM
Right now i have a little shit snail...  (car is still for sale BTW)

Please don't say its to big of a jump for me.

It's too big of a jump dude! :bs:

You can do what ever the hell you want, do it once do it right! Just realize your car will be very different. Maybe me tolerance of performance mods it just too high, but the 3 or 4 days I drove John's Galant I was just fine and happy with not being able to get full boost till 7k in 1st gear, the car just whet and was almost breaking the kumho's loose so what does it matter? 2nd and 3rd had full boost by 4500, and I didn't mind. :3gears: Turbo lag = traction control! Oh well.

Iceman · 12-31-2003

See i really want the FP3065 because of the power it can supply. The lag would diffenity be there no dout but the power! I saw a 4g63 2.0L see full boost oon one at 5.5k RPM I would bet i could get 5k RPM with cams on a 4g64 which would be some lag i would imgaine.

Comments?

FP3065> 50trim (stage 3 exh)?

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-31-2003

Those 2 turbos are not in the same league. Maybe something inbetween?

Cams make turbos spool slower, BTW. A 5k spoolup on a 4th gear pull would be considered very laggy. Your normal T3/T4s are going to spoolup around 3800-4000 on the street in 4th gear on a 8.5:1 comp 2.0l. Your T25 probably spools around 2500. A 14B spools around 2800. A 16G around 3000-3200. Judging by Nash's dyno charts I would guess his old 20G would spool around 3400 on the street in 4th gear.

Gear makes a huge difference on spoolup RPM. The higher the gear, the lower the RPM the turbo spools at. A turbo that hits decent boost at past 5000 in 4th gear might not be able to even reach full boost in 1st gear at all. I had a very laggy setup on my car at one point. It didn't reach full spool until very high 4000s. In order to keep power going and boost up between shifts in the lower gears you had to shift it extremely fast and concentrate on the shift. If you only shifted very fast, then you lost so much of the spool that you had a decent amount of nothing in the next gear. That is one area though where dual ball-bearing turbos make a big difference. They don't help an extreme amount on intial spool, but between shifts they retain most of their momentum and spool right back up quick even if you don't keep the gas to the floor during the shift.

A 4G64 is going to make a decent difference in spoolup though. A 50-trim spools ok even on a 7.8:1 compression 2.0l. On a fresh 8.5:1 comp 2.4l you should be able to step up to something a bit bigger and still get good spool.

Iceman · 12-31-2003

You got a point about not building full boost in 1st gear or so i hear. I will have a stutter box set-up for this FYI. I'm wondering what RPM a 56 trim get full boost at? Basicly i'm leaning towards a 50 trim with 272 cams. Is there a trubo close to a 50trim-56 trim that is BB cause i can't think of one off hand but that would work well.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-31-2003

FP3052 and other GT37 comp wheeled hybrids. I am sure someone could make you a 60-1 or 60-trim dual bb, if you really wanted.

Iceman · 12-31-2003

I'm not looking to spend more than 1k on the turbo but if i got something like that than i would be happy. Well the FP3052 can support 520 HP (est) which sounds good to me but is still up there in cost... WE WILL SEE THOUGH!

Thanks

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-31-2003

I would go with something bigger than a 50-trim, if you really want 450whp on pump gas. Dre did it, but unless you plan on spending 6-months tuning your standalone everyday for hours and blowing numerous headgaskets then just get a little bigger turbo like a 60-1 and make it easy for yourself. The 2.4l with spool a 60-1 non-bb no problems. You can save the BB money for a built tranny, sheetmetal intake, standalone fuel management, FMIC, 720+cc injectors, cams, engine internals, and the hundred other things needed to finish a major build up.

A 450whp car is handful though. Going right from a 200whp modded T25 car to 450+whp car is an easy way to get yourself killed. Nash ran his 11.2 making around 425whp. And be ready for some downtime once in a while as random parts start taking turns breaking.

Your probably not going to be street racing everything you come across as much either. You will have to worry about weither or not its worth possibly breaking something, getting someone killed, or getting the car you just spent $$$ on getting impounded by the cops. Going from a T25 that does 0-60 in about 6.x seconds to a car that can do it somewhere in the mid 3s on street tires you might find racing the Hondas and Cavaliers at the normal summer street racing spots a waste of time and a bit dangerous.

At-Least-It's-An-Evo · 12-31-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by ecoli@Dec 31 2003, 03:14 PM
A 450whp car is handful though. Going right from a 200whp modded T25 car to 450+whp car is an easy way to get yourself killed. Nash ran his 11.2 making around 425whp. And be ready for some downtime once in a while as random parts start taking turns breaking.

Your probably not going to be street racing everything you come across as much either. You will have to worry about weither or not its worth possibly breaking something, getting someone killed, or getting the car you just spent $$$ on getting impounded by the cops. Going from a T25 that does 0-60 in about 6.x seconds to a car that can do it somewhere in the mid 3s on street tires you might find racing the Hondas and Cavaliers at the normal summer street racing spots a waste of time and a bit dangerous.

Amen.

PSI2HI · 12-31-2003

56 trim for low boost pump gas.

50 trim for high boost race gas.

We've got my 56 trim on 20 psi 92 octance making 408 whp on a overrun 2G MAS and a AFC.

Nick

**1ViciousGSX** · 12-31-2003

My VPE .56 trim/GT30 BB hits full boost by 3500-3600rpm with 272/272 cams. The 2.4L will drop that by 1000rpm. Hopefully I'll be able to tell you for sure soon.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-31-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by 1ViciousGSX@Dec 31 2003, 05:15 PM
My VPE .56 trim/GT30 BB hits full boost by 3500-3600rpm with 272/272 cams. The 2.4L will drop that by 1000rpm. Hopefully I'll be able to tell you for sure soon.

You have the smaller 700177-12 aka HKS GT3037 56-trim 55 lb/min wheel though right? Not the 56-trim comp wheel orginally from the GT35R that I assume we have been talking about.