Thomas Knight Supercharger Kit, Eaton M90, 3000gt

[niterydr]

Well Well Well...
Some of you have seen the supercharged 3kgt we are working on.
Here are the results to date:


First off we do not recommend this product as a direct bolt on unless you have one of these: Our mill . The flange had to be milled 5 seperate occasions.
Secondly, 450's are way to large, we were taking out 24% of the 360's on the dyno today (more to come on this), so that recommondation was somewhat off.
Now on to the good stuff: The supercharger 'kit' is about 90% complete. It needed some tweeks, just like most 'kits' from manafactures, and we expected this coming into it. I am glad we quoted high on it, because of the 10 hours into the kit install we billed for, we have about 40 hours in real time. (the first time it was put on, taking it off and on is 1-2 hours tops now).
The supercharger came with to much fluid in it, and the belt was puny/cheap. Also, the tensioner setup was far from par. To much fluid you say? Big deal right?
Well the car was on the dyno last week, made 2psi with the supercharger belt slipping, (and we had that tensioner fully cranked). Then the belt proceeded to shread and take out a power steering line (on the dyno), at the same time, the end seal on the supercharger blew.
We called Thomas Knight Industries, and they sent us a seal, free of charge, which was great of him. We got it the next day. Unfortunally we also got the pleasure of uninstalling the supercharger to replace the seal (woohoo!), and replacing the ps line. Also we bought a stronger belt, and revised his tensioner design. Also switched out the plugs, cleaned the engine bay from all the oil, etc...
So that brings us to today.
mods we added:
Complete systems:
-Thomas Knight Industries Supercharger kit (eaton M90) with his small '9' psi pully.
-LiteWeight Alky/water injector kit (single stage).
Mods:
Fuel:
-360cc tt injectors (yes there are wired in resistors in the wiring harness)
-Aeromotive regulator kit (our own setup w/our own fuel rail adapter pieces)
-S-AFC II
Engine:
-unorthodox racing adjustable cam gears (3 degrees advance on the exhaust side, we were worried about excess cylinder pressure).
Exhaust:
-gutted main cat, and pre cats (both).
-Borla catback
-Dn Performance downpipe (cut to fit, rear bank pipe was 1" to long).
Interior:
-Boost/Trans temp gauges
Transmission:
-Fully built IPT trans w/ 4000rpm stall.
-inline trans filter
-upgraded trans cooler
-amsoil oil.
Intake:
-DN Performance N/A intake
Ignition:
-MSD plug wires
-NGK BCPR7ES Gapped to .032"
The car also has tein suspension and a bomex body kit, we didn't install the hood scoop, is it will be going to the body shop after this.

So on to the story, after months of delays and empty promises (and problems) we finally complete the car. We get over to the dyno. After 2 hours we manage to SQUEEZE 166whp and 162.17 ft.lbs torque.
It started at 154.46whp and 159.95 ft. lbs torque.
A few things.
1) We were seeing 3psi of boost MAX. The gauge is off by 1 psi, and it takes 1-2 psi to drive the supercharger, so in effect we were breaking even.
2) I know we could have advanced the intake cam and retarted the exhaust cam, but we were truely afraid of it nuking at the 8-9+psi we were 'suspose' to get.
3)We still don't know how liteweights kit is, as it turns on over 4psi .
4)We could have ran it a bit leaner, as the a/f ratio is 11.0-11.5 on pump gas, but again, trying not to nuke it.

Needless to say, we are very upset with the way this kit was put together, and marketed. I called him this morning and he told me that the motor is breathing to much now, hince why we have lower boost pressure. I can agree with that, but why, when I tell you what we are doing to the vehicle, do you insist that we will still be running 9psi? Tell me it'll need the larger crank pully BEFORE I put the car together. If I knew it wouldn't break 4, it wouldn't have a alky injection kit on it, we would have kept the stock injectors, and the cam timing would be different. This was after he tried to blame the built auto for robbing power . Sure its going to lose power comprared to a manual, but still.
Now he is saying that I need to have a machine shop custom machine a larger crank pully to get to the magical 9psi we are suspose to run (11-12 psi gauge/plenum pressure, -1 for the gauge being off (supplied with kit), -2 for the supercharger's lunch).
Apparently we are going to see 15hp per psi over the 3 we make, maybe more since our 'VE' of our motor is "insanly high compared to most".
Please...the motor has adjustable cam gears, intake, and exhaust...whooptie doo...

So now I get to tell our customer that we made more power under the curve, but gained 12whp and 3 ft.lbs/torque.
What a dissapointment. If a product isn't going to work for an application, why continue to stress its okay? Now our customer can either pay to have a customer pully machined, or be happy with his stock performing vehicle with more overall power .
Oh, and btw the supercharger doesn't come close to fitting under the hood, as we had to cut a hole in it with our plasma.
Fun times, sorry for the huge rant, I know a few people on here are curious.
Pictures to come on our site this weekend (if I have time).
Hopefully we can get the larger pully made and make some real numbers (with the customers approval).
So close, but so far....
So in the end: Please go Twin Turbo or Single Turbo on your N/A 3000gt/stealth!! This 'supercharger' thing is way overrated.

I know this is dsmstyle, but this is for anyone that will try to buy anything from him, be careful. Hopefully the customer will give the go-ahead on the larger crank pully so we can try to make more boost and actually use 1/2 the parts that are on the car.
Fun fun fun...

[Outlaw1]

Originally Posted by niterydr

So in the end: Please go Twin Turbo or Single Turbo on your N/A 3000gt/stealth!! This 'supercharger' thing is way overrated.

Sell the charger and just spray it. I bet that kit was high dollar too.

[niterydr]

We told him twin turbo or nitrous would be better, but he already had the kit, and no refunds .
I just talked to him, I think we are going to go ahead on the pully idea if it isn't THAT much more.

[Matt D.]

Just went to Thomas Knight's site. They make an ELECTRIC SUPERCHARGER. And they have a video of someone running a 15.14 second quarter mile. Wow... I feel sorry for this guy.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Thomas Knight has a very bad reputation for producing crap. His bolt-on turbo kits are usually harder to put on than if you just bought some random parts and made it yourself. We had someone bring in one of his bolt-on DSM turbos a couple years ago. It was the biggest pos joke ever. They took some shitty small Garrett turbo, cut off most of the exhaust housing and then welded on part on a Mitsu exhaust housing. I never seen anything like that before or since. The exhaust wheel would catch on the housing, it you tried to spin in by hand.

[niterydr]

Originally Posted by ecoli

Thomas Knight has a very bad reputation for producing crap. His bolt-on turbo kits are usually harder to put on than if you just bought some random parts and made it yourself. We had someone bring in one of his bolt-on DSM turbos a couple years ago. It was the biggest pos joke ever. They took some shitty small Garrett turbo, cut off most of the exhaust housing and then welded on part on a Mitsu exhaust housing. I never seen anything like that before or since. The exhaust wheel would catch on the housing, it you tried to spin in by hand.

Thats hilarous, that just made my week.

[FattyBoomBatty]

why wouldn't you just use a smaller supercharger pulley? it's what everyone does to their cars that come with superchargers from the factory.

[niterydr]

It is on the smallest pully he offers, the only option is a larger crank pully. The supercharger pully is 2.88" diameter, the way the belt is routed, any more, and it'll slip like a bitch .

[Goat Blower]

How does a supercharger "use" 1-2 psi? The engine doesn't produce positive manifold pressure NA, and the supercharger is belt driven, so how can it "use" anything? It should take 5-15 hp away from the parasitic drag on the crank, but that's different. Sounds like he doesn't even know what he's talking about if he told you that. And the insanely high VE for a stock 3S motor? Hahahaha.

The only good thing about Thomas Knight Turbos is the fish he has in his magazine ads.

I saw that turbo Shane mentioned, scary stuff. I've also read the "tech" articles when his electric supercharger was featured in some car rag. Three starters hooked up via gearing to drive a tiny supercharger. Plus you had to add a bunch of batteries in the trunk. Those kits were something like $4500 when they came out, the last time I saw them advertised, they were under $2500. Tells you very few bought that stuff.

Sorry to hear either of you got messed up with the this clown's products. Pull that stuff off and sell it to some fool on Tuners or Ebay, then whip up a nice turbo kit with a few 14b's.

[MustGoFaster]

The extra power produced by that 1-2psi (15-25hp) gets canceled by the supercharger stealing power to "compress" air. Or that’s how I would interpret it.

I think a nice pair of 13t’s or 15G’s would have done nicely. 14b’s probably would have been a bit excessive for the power range we were/are going for.

[Outlaw1]

Are you sure this isn't a busted blower or a bad leak of some sort? With a 2.88 upper and any sort of typical lower pulley it's hard to imagine 3psi with any combination.

[Pushit2.0]

The drive ratio is only 1.5 or 1.6, the crank pulley is the inner 4 cog PS belt on the 3s which is about a 3" pulley. But with the 6" pulley that will be made this M90 will be spinning at 15,000 rpm, a drive ratio of 2.1 or 2.2. And I am sure the PS pump will like spinning almost twice as fast also.

~John

[Goat Blower]

Nah, there's no cancelling of boost to run the supercharger. It's only parasitic drag on the crank that cancels some horsepower, not boost.

I just read last night that a regular old centrifugal supercharger can use up to 50 horsepower to run it on a big block Chebby. They also talked quite a bit about the drag from the supercharger pulling crank pulley's apart. They also can bend a supercharger mount that's not strong enough. They use two 3/4" aluminum plates to mount the supercharger. Interesting.

Steve

Originally Posted by MustGoFaster

The extra power produced by that 1-2psi (15-25hp) gets canceled by the supercharger stealing power to "compress" air. Or that’s how I would interpret it.

I think a nice pair of 13t’s or 15G’s would have done nicely. 14b’s probably would have been a bit excessive for the power range we were/are going for.

[Outlaw1]

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

Nah, there's no cancelling of boost to run the supercharger. It's only parasitic drag on the crank that cancels some horsepower, not boost.

I just read last night that a regular old centrifugal supercharger can use up to 50 horsepower to run it on a big block Chebby. They also talked quite a bit about the drag from the supercharger pulling crank pulley's apart. They also can bend a supercharger mount that's not strong enough. They use two 3/4" aluminum plates to mount the supercharger. Interesting.

Steve

You would be blown away if you saw the amount of deflection in a ProCharger D1-SC bracket setup on a Fox body Mustang. Within the last few years the craze has been to use a huge supercharger at a low boost setting to keep the intake charge dense. You should check out the belt tension it takes to get an 8-rib setup from slipping with a D1. It makes me feel very sorry for the supercharger bearings, engine main bearings, crank snout/pulley and brackets. Unless you go cog drive, you're stuck with serious belt tension with a big centrifugal and an 8-rib.

[niterydr]

Yeah this is a 4 rib setup, with an extreme belt tension. We aren't saying that it is canceling boost, just the 1-2psi worth of hp increase is being consumed by the supercharger.
We could do a boost leak test, but the gauge is plumbed into the supercharger manifold, not much room for the boost to leak out of, since its at the source.
John is right, im sure the ps pump will love life!

[Outlaw1]

Originally Posted by niterydr

Yeah this is a 4 rib setup, with an extreme belt tension.

A whole 4 ribs? I smell something burning. It's your blower belt!

[JET]

Why not put a larger pulley on the PS pump too? There has to be some Mitsu application that could fit on pretty easily.

[Pushit2.0]

I have not tried myself but according to Knight you can not get that pulley off the PS pump with out cutting it apart. But if we are putting on a differnt pulley I guess it would not matter. The belt is not slipping I checked a few times on the dyno and it was just as warm as the AC/ALT belt. I know befor I modified the tensioner it was slipping, But a bolt tension set up similar to a 1g alternator tensioner fixed the problem.

~John

[Outlaw1]

Originally Posted by Pushit2.0

I know befor I modified the tensioner it was slipping, But a bolt tension set up similar to a 1g alternator tensioner fixed the problem.

If the belt was slipping BEFORE it made 3psi, it's either a totally junk setup or the blower isn't turning as freely as it should. I'm still shocked someone would even drive a blower with a 4-rib belt. I've had problems with 6-rib setups, I can't imagine taking a step back from there. Sounds like something in the blower is binding.

[FattyBoomBatty]

maybe you guys forgot to advance the timing. turn that distributor to the left a bit. i gaurantee it'll help.