Possibly the most retarded anti-gun ad I've ever seen...

[jeremy1375]

2 kids per DAY drown in pools. I don't see anyone shouting for pools to be regulated and the parents prosecuted if a child drowns. I have also seen instances where kids were saved because there was a firearm available to them so they could stop the perpetrator.

http://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/122222/362%20Safety%20Barrier%20Guidelines%20for%20Pools. pdf

[Halon]

I don't think it's fair to sum it all up by saying such a broad statement like "it's unregulated". There are regulations right?

A lot of good points here, I like trolling this thread. I'm not much of a debater but I agree with a lot of points here. I do agree with what Vicious said though that you cannot protect everyone from everything. You can put things in place to protect to a degree, and that line is hard to define because everyone has such different opinions. Not just on this one topic, but on just about any topic. It's a sad situation, but accidents happen and will continue to happen until the end of time. Whether it be a kid accidentally dying from a gun, or a knife, or choking on candy, or falling out of a window. I also agree that people should be held accountable for their actions, whether it be an accident or not. But hold the individuals accountable, don't infringe upon the rights of others who are being responsible.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567025/Boy-4-accidentally-stabbed-death-falling-uncle-carving-wood.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510638/Woman-18-killed-friend-throwing-knives-tree-missed-killed-her.html

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Three-year-old-boy-dies-after-falling-out-of-window-in-SE-Portland-276083451.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/12/nyregion/12choke.html?_r=0

[1ViciousGSX]

I don't think it's fair to sum it all up by saying such a broad statement like "it's unregulated". There are regulations right?

A lot of good points here, I like trolling this thread. I'm not much of a debater but I agree with a lot of points here. I do agree with what Vicious said though that you cannot protect everyone from everything. You can put things in place to protect to a degree, and that line is hard to define because everyone has such different opinions. Not just on this one topic, but on just about any topic. It's a sad situation, but accidents happen and will continue to happen until the end of time. Whether it be a kid accidentally dying from a gun, or a knife, or choking on candy, or falling out of a window. I also agree that people should be held accountable for their actions, whether it be an accident or not. But hold the individuals accountable, don't infringe upon the rights of others who are being responsible.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567025/Boy-4-accidentally-stabbed-death-falling-uncle-carving-wood.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510638/Woman-18-killed-friend-throwing-knives-tree-missed-killed-her.html

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Three-year-old-boy-dies-after-falling-out-of-window-in-SE-Portland-276083451.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/12/nyregion/12choke.html?_r=0

Thank you.

[Goat Blower]

This is sad. My cousin died from this same thing when I was a kid. Accidents happen and the parents suffer unbelievably.

If any laws were broken about having the gun accessible in this new case, they should pay any said fine. Punishment beyond that? Hell no, they've suffered enough.

[1ViciousGSX]

This is sad. My cousin died from this same thing when I was a kid. Accidents happen and the parents suffer unbelievably.

If any laws were broken about having the gun accessible in this new case, they should pay any said fine. Punishment beyond that? Hell no, they've suffered enough.

Sorry for your family, I'm sure that was hard on them.

[jeremy1375]

So tell us, if it were King Jeremy day, what would you do? What would you put in place that removes all chance of an accident without infringing on our rights to gun ownership and use? How would you regulate gun ownership so that when it comes time for somebody to protect their families they don't get shot in the back while trying to enter a code in their lock box?

There is no such thing that removes all chance of anything. But, there are steps that can be taken with just about anything to decrease the occurrence of harm. For example safety standards are required for cars. Safety is constantly evolving in the automotive industry. Air bags and shoulder seat belts are mandatory now. Your odds of surviving a crash are much greater now than 25 years ago. Smart guns are one solution to your question and are the next evolution in gun safety, but have significant push back from the NRA because there is some implied argument that nothing can be touched with guns.

[1ViciousGSX]

There is no such thing that removes all chance of anything. But, there are steps that can be taken with just about anything to decrease the occurrence of harm. For example safety standards are required for cars. Safety is constantly evolving in the automotive industry. Air bags and shoulder seat belts are mandatory now. Your odds of surviving a crash are much greater now than 25 years ago. Smart guns are one solution to your question and are the next evolution in gun safety, but have significant push back from the NRA because there is some implied argument that nothing can be touched with guns.

Well since we can both agree there are laws in place and procedures that should be followed, what else can you do protect everybody from themselves while still having the ability to defend themselves on a moments notice?

You keep comparing building and manufacturing with the ability to own and use.
Sure cars are safer because of regulations, just like guns are. But those regulations don't stop somebody from accidentally backing over a child in the driveway. It doesn't stop them from getting behind the wheel when they shouldn't. It doesn't make them perform maintenance on their brakes when needed. It doesn't make them pay attention 100% of the time while driving. So accidents do happen. You can't build this "eutopia" where nothing can go wrong. Crap happens and that's life.

Would you rather live in a society where you have the chance to protect yourself, your choice? Or would you rather live in a society where somebody else decides you can't because another person made a bad decision and you have to pay the price for it with your life?

[jeremy1375]

I don't think it's fair to sum it all up by saying such a broad statement like "it's unregulated". There are regulations right?

Yes there are regulations, and I use unregulated when talking to Vicious as I understand his position to be there should ideally be no regulation.

Your other point not is lost on me. From my perspective, any type of regulation on firearms are much more controversial and untouchable than just about any other topic. Absolute firearm rights are seen as a personal value among many that doesn't really seem to apply to any other subject. The attitude I see goes like this. - If the government says put up a fence around the pool, people are irritated, but understand. If the government says you need a trigger lock on your guns if you have kids at home, somehow the government is violating the constitution.

[AwdGSX13]

How about starting at the beginning and instead of gun control someone argues birth control.. You have people everyday having children that A. Don't have the know how to properly take care of a child. B. Are on welfare and government assistance as it is, so really can they afford a child? Have you ever heard of that?

This is all ok? When you take into consideration school shootings, Sandy Hook as an example. Some point to the problem as the person being "unstable" and the parents did nothing about it. How about Bullying? this leads to school shootings, has anyone argued anything regarding punishment for this? I know it gets highlighted these days, but is it enough?


I think the argument Vicious is trying to make is instead of pointing towards the gun everytime, how about making people own up to their mistakes? Punishment or not, both the parents and the brother will never be able to live this down.

[jeremy1375]

Well since we can both agree there are laws in place and procedures that should be followed, what else can you do protect everybody from themselves while still having the ability to defend themselves on a moments notice?

Require minimum training and competency for any gun use. Whether it be home protection or carry. A responsible gun owner will do that anyway, so what is the punishment? What would be the problem with a several day course requirement for gun use? How is that a bad thing when public safety is considered?
What about requiring background checks and recording transactions of all guns sales?
How will either of those prevent someone from defending themselves?


You keep comparing building and manufacturing with the ability to own and use.
Sure cars are safer because of regulations, just like guns are. But those regulations don't stop somebody from accidentally backing over a child in the driveway. It doesn't stop them from getting behind the wheel when they shouldn't. It doesn't make them perform maintenance on their brakes when needed. It doesn't make them pay attention 100% of the time while driving. So accidents do happen. You can't build this "eutopia" where nothing can go wrong. Crap happens and that's life.

They were required to learn the rules of driving before any of that occurred though. No one is required to learn anything at all about gun safety before using a gun to protect their home. Is it reasonable to expect to assess the danger and hit a target with no practice or training? Or understand the vigilance required to make sure a child doesn't get access to the gun?



Would you rather live in a society where you have the chance to protect yourself, your choice? Or would you rather live in a society where somebody else decides you can't because another person made a bad decision and you have to pay the price for it with your life?

My replies above are not in contradiction with the first statement.