Engine Rebuilding... a couple questions

[Thor06]

Hello everyone. As many of you know, I spun a bearing in my purple Talon and I am going to be rebuilding a motor to drop in this spring. Well, I have a couple questons regarding gaskets and bearings.

First off, gaskets. Is a gasket a gasket, or does brand matter? You can get a full no name gasket kit on eBay for like $60, a Topline set from SBR for $160, or a OEM Mitsu kit for $240. Would it really be advantageous to pay twice as much for Topline kit of four times as much for the Mitsu kit?

As for bearings, I am going to go with the Clevite 77 bearings, but on extremepsi they have two kinds, trimetal and aluminum. The mains are trimetal so I am going to get those, but its the rods bearings I was thinking about. They have trimetals for the 7 bolt rod bearings, but they only have aluminums for 6 bolt rod bearings. Are they going to be ok, or should I track down some trimetal rod bearings?

Oh, also what about rings? I got a good deal on some ross pistons, should I get Ross rings, or will any work? Is there any brand that is better than any others? Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

[niterydr]

Stay away from anything but Mitsu gaskets, the rest are just junk.
Clevites are junk, and the Aluminum's are passanger grade. I'd recommend ACL's or kings.
Rings, it really depends upon what you are looking for out of the vehicle. Most aftermarket rings are very good.

[Thor06]

Sounds good on the gaskets.

I've never heard anything but Clevites recommended, I am suprised to see someone talk negatively about them. So for the ACL's I would go with the tri-metal ones right?

I dont know what this car is going to see, worst case senario hopefully around 300whp, best case 500+ but I seriously doubt more than a hair over 500. Ideally, I am shooting for roughly 450 but thats a ways out if it happens at all. Should I just snag the cheapest aftermarket ones I can or what?

[Super Bleeder!!]

Does ACL even make a trimetal rod bearing? Back when i ordered mine i couldnt find them.

[JET]

I have ACL's in this engine too, Clevites are pretty poor quality. Kings are really good too. The ACL and Kings aren't hardly any more $$ than Clevites, talk to LSE about them.

[niterydr]

The ACL Race Series of bearings is Tri-Metal and is what we prefer to use in most of our applications (when available). You can also get them in std size with .001" more clearance, helps for oiling.

ACL also has a few other grades of bearings that I have seen other shops use and just say "ACL". I have never used these bearings and can-not comment on them, as we have done all the research on the ACL RACE series.
http://www.aclperformance.com.au/prod_e_bearings.htm

We also like to use the KING bearings. They do not offer a "race" series for the import motors at this time, but they feature a tri-metal design as well. Now before people get worried about the KING bearings, they are what I use in my car ;).

http://www.kingbearings.com/advantages.html

Our stage 1 motors come with Kings, stage 2 and up come with the ACL RACE series. The price is the same on both of them, so you can opt for one or the other, but they are the ONLY 2 bearings we will build motors with.
Another interesting fact, Toga bearings are just re-labled King's. We have figured that out on a few Nissan Motors.

If anyone needs engine bearings let me know. The Kings and ACL's go for right around $85 for a complete set of connecting rod, main, and thrust washer/thrust bearings. We've already done all of the hard work as far as research is conserned, just have us take care of you the entire way ;).

About Clevites...they were top of the line many years ago, and many people have refused to switch from them. We personally believe that the markets change for ALL products and are always trying to improve our product line. We refuse to get stuck in a rut when it comes to a perferred manufacture. When the Clevites started to show up with burrs everywhere and just looked like the tolerances have went to crap, we dropped them. (This was back in 2004).

[Thor06]

Ok, I think I am going to go with the ACL tri metal ones (and yes Joe, they do make them for 6 bolt rod bearings). I would rather over build it than underbuild it you know?

One question on the +.001 sizing though, wouldnt that make it more susceptible (spelling?) to spinning?

What about rings? Prefiled would be nice if they make them, if not or if they are overly expensive its not a big deal. Someone recommended a brand to me and I cant remember it for the life of me. All I remember is they dont make pistons (that I know of) and it seems the name was of a town in the midwest. I will try to remember that name.

Also, what about oil? I have heard soooo much about it all and everyone has a different opinion. I was going to go with some Royal Purple, but someone told me it "works too good" and the engine needs more friction to come up to the right operating temperature. Is there any merit in that statement? Is it true I can run the cheapest dino oil for the first couple oil changes of the break in since it wont be in there for long, or do I need to go with the same shit through and through? What about weight, the car wont see temps below probably like 50 degrees since its a summer cruise car, should I just stick with the 10W-30?

Speaking of break in, a DSM wiseman told me that of the engines he has broken in, the best way he did it was by semi-beating on it during the break in. What would you recommend for the break in?

Sorry to be bombarding you with questions, but I gotta get my mind right on this shit so when it comes time to do it, I know what I am doing you know? I think I am going to have to hit you up for a set of those bearings and rings, but probably not for a while. I still gotta rip the engine apart, buy a decent torque wrench and micrometer, and get machine work done before I can start building it. Anyway, I appreciate the help Swanny and everyone else.

[Kracka]

10W-30 is a good oil to use. Stay away from Royal Purple fluids though, their initial protection is good but their additive package breaks down VERY quickly. Do you want to run a full synthetic or not? I pesonally don't after reading all that I've read, but everyone has their preferences. Shell Rotella-T is a great conventional, but sometimes can be tough to find in 10W-30. Havoline is one of the top conventionals as is Motorcraft (both are very spendy though). My oil of choice is Chevron Supreme 10W-30; I run this in my S2000 and Laser and it shows great wear protection and long-life (UOA's prove this, I am not just stating my opinion). The reason I picked this oil is because of the quality (its one of the top conventionals) and the price ($.59/quart at Checker after MIR). Redline is among the best of the best synthetics, but its really expensive at ~$7-8/quart. Amsoil is another good one, but I hate all things that come out of Superior, WI so I will not recomend it. Mobil 1 is of course good, but I actually prefer Castrol Syntec since it shows better wear protection and doesn't run on the thin side of the viscosity rating like Mobil 1 does. Syntec is not a true synthetic though so it will not last as long as Mobil 1 will. The 3,000 mile oil change interval is a bunch of nonsense too. I keep my conventionals in for at least 4,000 miles on my cars or 5,000 miles on cars with "normal" engines (i.e. not boosted or reving out to 9k). I would not even consider changing out a synthetic on a DSM before 5k miles unless its a hardcore track beast. Personally, I'd probably do 7-8k miles on synthetic in a DSM but 10k+ would more than likely be perfectly safe.

[niterydr]

Ok, I think I am going to go with the ACL tri metal ones (and yes Joe, they do make them for 6 bolt rod bearings). I would rather over build it than underbuild it you know?

One question on the +.001 sizing though, wouldnt that make it more susceptible (spelling?) to spinning?
No. Spinning is when metal touches metal.


What about rings? Prefiled would be nice if they make them, if not or if they are overly expensive its not a big deal. Someone recommended a brand to me and I cant remember it for the life of me. All I remember is they dont make pistons (that I know of) and it seems the name was of a town in the midwest. I will try to remember that name.

No. Rings are always file fit. If you are not familiar with this process I would highly suggest having someone build your motor. Not all ring gaps are good, not all ring filers are the same, and not all rings are the same.


Also, what about oil? I have heard soooo much about it all and everyone has a different opinion. I was going to go with some Royal Purple, but someone told me it "works too good" and the engine needs more friction to come up to the right operating temperature. Is there any merit in that statement? Is it true I can run the cheapest dino oil for the first couple oil changes of the break in since it wont be in there for long, or do I need to go with the same shit through and through? What about weight, the car wont see temps below probably like 50 degrees since its a summer cruise car, should I just stick with the 10W-30?

We recommend and use Redline Oils for synthetic. Our motors get generic motor oil for initial break in, then switch out to synthetic on street motors at 500 miles. My motor got synthetic after 8 miles.


Speaking of break in, a DSM wiseman told me that of the engines he has broken in, the best way he did it was by semi-beating on it during the break in. What would you recommend for the break in?

Most aftermarket rings seat at idle. We break in all of our motors on the dyno using load/vac pulls. 10ish vaccumm pulls will usually seat all the rings, then its good to go. This is a very touchy subject for some, we do it our way, everyone has their own.
My motor was making 500+hp after 8 miles.


Sorry to be bombarding you with questions, but I gotta get my mind right on this shit so when it comes time to do it, I know what I am doing you know? I think I am going to have to hit you up for a set of those bearings and rings, but probably not for a while. I still gotta rip the engine apart, buy a decent torque wrench and micrometer, and get machine work done before I can start building it. Anyway, I appreciate the help Swanny and everyone else.

Not a problem, it is what I am here for.

[Kracka]

Valvoline MaxLife (conventional oil designed for cars with 75k+ miles) is a great break-in oil due to high moly content.