Starting problem

**Halon** · 10-23-2005

As of like 3 days ago, my car all a sudden started having a starting problem. When I go to start it, it'll start but not fully. It'll just kinda start for about a 1/2 second, never go above 500rpm, and die. Kinda sounds like it fires barely and just kills. So far I have checked compression which is 150-150-145-150. There is a spark present on all 4 plugs. I took off the return line from the FPR and turned it over to make sure there is gas pumping through, and there is fuel. Base timing is set at 8BTDC when the plug is grounded.

This is a 91 talon awd. Mods are 50-trim, exhaust, intake, 2g MAS, EPROM ECU with keydiver chip. 650's, 255hp... The only thing I can think of is maybe it has something to do with the fact that I'm running the 255hp on a stock FPR. But then if that's the case, why was it starting for the past week and a half just fine?

Anyone have any insight?

GVR-4579 · 10-23-2005

leaking injector flooding out the car when its not running? Vaccum leak?

**Halon** · 10-23-2005

what's a good way to check the injectors for this? They are brand new, only been used for 1 1/2 weeks. I'm pretty sure I don't have any vacuum leaks as I have minimal vacuum lines and I did a quick look over and didn't see anything. But I will test that also. Not to second guess you, but how would a vacuum leak cause it to not start sometimes, and then start other times? And wouldn't it cause other issues while the car is running like idling rough?

I guess I did forget to mention a few other things. The car does start sometimes. Like 1 out of 20 attempts and it might start. And when it does start, it runs just fine, idles just fine. Also I have looked for leaking gas, and nothing is wet anywhere near any fuel lines/injectors/fuel rail. After I attempt to start it a few times and it won't start, you can smell gas.

GVR-4579 · 10-23-2005

maybe check your tps too, i know my datalogger will check injectors, i doubt if they are brand new that they are bad. If you were getting unmetered air in the maf would be wong, i had a problem withthis once from my BOV but then again i am not recirculating Does there seem to be any specific time that it does it worse or more predictably or just al the time do you now what your fuel pressure is?

**Halon** · 10-23-2005

I'm not sure what my fuel pressure is. I don't have a guage for that so I'm sort of unsure how to check that. There is no specific time it does this. It just started doing it a few days ago, and it's just gotten worse every time i drive it. What seems to have been working is I pull the MPI fuse, and crank the engine over for like 5 seconds trying to get everything out of there that I can. Then put the fuse back in. This works sometimes after just 1 try, or after 10 tries other times. So I'm not sure if it's actually helping, or if it's just coincidence. If I can get the car to start, I too have the ability to shut off the injectors 1 by 1 with my logger. Maybe that'd be a nice quick way to see if they shut off. Also how can I check my TPS? On the logger it would show the throttle at around lik e8% at idle, and 100% at WOT. That seems about right to me, so can I assume it's working fine?

One last thing I noticed a little bit ago. The little solonoid that the FPR vauum lines connect to, it was ticking real fast, kinda sounded like a little relay was just going apeshit in there. We unplugged it and plugged it in again. It started, but then I shut it off and tried again and it wouldn't start again. So there I'm also not sure if that actually did something, or was just a coincidence. What I did after that was take one of those other solonoids right next to them that I'm not using anymore (emissions are removed), and hooked up the vacuum lines and connector to it, and it didn't fix a thing. So I'm thinking that is probably good as well.

quick2.4 · 10-24-2005

Its an idea but it might not be fuel related mine is more stock an was doing th same thing but it was a rotted wire at the alternator which was giving a bad connection to the battery so you might wana check you charging system out just to be sure

**Halon** · 10-24-2005

How would charging have to do with this? The battery is working fine, the car is turning over fine. The problem is that it turns over, over and over and over, and nothing happens except for it hicups for a second like it wants to start but just dies.

1QUICK4 · 10-24-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by GVR-4579

leaking injector flooding out the car when its not running?

I was thinking the same thing, it's a pretty common problem.

Get it up to operating temp then shut it off & let it sit for awhile.
After it sits for about 10 minutes pull your sparkplugs and see if there is more of a heavy gas smell from one of the cylinders. You could also pull your fuel rail out (with the injectors still attached) and see if one injector (or more) are leaking.

**Halon** · 10-24-2005

Thanks. I will look at that here when I have some spare time! I bought these injectors while I was in Japan probably like 8 months ago from SLS. But I just got the car working 2 weeks ago so they have like 200 miles on them only. So I'm thinknig I'd probably be screwed if they are bad because I ordered them so long ago eh?

Outlaw1 · 10-24-2005

Are you sure the MAS is good and/or plugged in? Are the spark plugs fuel fouled?

**Halon** · 10-24-2005

The spark plugs have a ver slight whitish look to them. They aren't wet or anything. They have about 3k miles on them. The MAS is plugged in. How can I tell if it's good or not? When the car starts, it reads Hz just fine, and it runs just fine. Is there a way I can tell if it is good or bad?

**Halon** · 10-25-2005

Well I finally just got this thing started after trying over and over. Here's a few extra things I wanted to bring up.

I wanted to bring up an idea someone else told me. Possibly the coolant temp sensor. Now again if this was the probelm, how can I check this? With my logger somehow? It didn't have some crazy negative numbers for AIRT or COOL (which I'm assuming mean airtemp and coolant temp). Airtemp was like 71*f, while COOL was at 180*F after it ideled for awhile. Is that about right? Is the airtemp a little high since it's actually like 30* out? Also there was an EGRT (which I assume means EGR TEMP. It was at like -17*. Could this mean anything?

I also just checked the injectors. When I turn each one off on the logger, they shut off. So that would mean they are working I'd think. The other day, the little solonoid for the FPR was clicking all fast and crazy like, could it all be from a bad ECU possibly?

niterydr · 10-25-2005

If your coolant temp sensor went out, it usually reads something stupid. I think mine read -178 degrees or something like that. That solonoid increases fuel pressure during cold startup. If you want, I can give you mine off the auto to swap out for a test. Let me know.

**Halon** · 10-26-2005

Swanny. I have the emissions removed, so I tried swapping the lines and the plug over to my unused EGR solonoid since they seem like they are both pretty deng similar. That still did not fix the problem. Was I wrong in thinking that they both should work the same? If they operate totally different, then yes I'd love to borrow yours. But if my idea was actually a right, then I have already ruled out the solonoid as the problem.

GVR-4579 · 10-26-2005

yea i have that little solenoid eliminated, i think its pointless, maybe will only add fuel like a choke

A//// Guy · 10-26-2005

I had that same problem when my caps on the ECU were leaking, but you have a new ECU it seems... also behind the radio it was clicking also.

You can get rid of all emmisions and that clicking FPR solenoid under the hood. You might want to look at your FPR itself, maybe its draining all the gas back to your tank and there isnt enough pressure to get the car going again?

Try running just the fuel pump for a few second with the logger, then fire it up and see if it takes? Could be a bad FPR?

**Halon** · 10-27-2005

Thanks Peter, I'll try that after work! Yes the ECU is new, well new to me. I bought it, and I guess it's a possibility that it could have went bad in the couple weeks I used it. It's always a possibility.

Outlaw1 · 10-27-2005

I dunno how I forgot about this, but I have an ECU sitting on the shelf that does the same thing. One day after work I tried to start my car, and the engine just spun and spun and spun. I tried it about twenty times and it wouldn't start up. I had just called my g-friend to bring my spare ECU when I decided to try it one more time. It fired up and ran fine all the way home. Sorry, I had forgotten all about that bad ECU. I even had the same fast clicking fuel pressure solenoid symptom that you have.

Pimpin Dsmstyle · 10-27-2005

Any chance the cas could be causing something like this? I don't know how it would just stop working one day.

**Halon** · 01-27-2006

OK Well I'm reviving this thread. I just replaced my FPR with an Aeromotive unit. I had thought that possibly my stock one was stuck open or something, and sending too much fuel back to my gas tank. And maybe that also was why I am getting crazy knock readings most the time. Well, this changed nothing. Hell I can't even get it started now. I am thinking about getting my ECU checked out. Is there anyone, or any shop on here that has a way to check an ECU, to see if it's working right?

Also I eliminated that FPR solonoid when I installed the new FPR, so I suppose that is out of the picture as the problem as well now!

CAS, I was also wondering about this, and also that TPS. Is there a way I can see if those both work? I have an SAFC, and when I go to the "sensor Check" menu, and I hit the gas, there's a number on there that goes from like 0 - like 5 or something around that. I'd guess that is the TPS doing it's job? So would that mean it's working right? This problem is driving me nuts!