Roll Bar/Cage

**Halon** · 01-07-2009

My current setup "should" be able to go quite a bit quicker then 11.49. I really don't think I'd enjoy driving all the way to one of these tracks, just to get kicked out right away.

So I've been contemplating putting in a 5-point Roll Bar (with swing out)which should apparently allow me to go as fast as 10.00 according to the 2008 Rulebook I have, and also on this link:
http://www.nhra.com/contacts/tech_faq.html

I went shopping around online, and all the pre-made kits appear to all be 8-point cages. I honestly do not see myself going any faster than 10.00, and the less bars/pipes I have to put in the interior, the better. Does anyone know of any pre-made 5-point kits? Does anyone know any good local places that could install this, or even just make one if there are no premade kits? I'd more then likely just go with a mild steel setup.

On other question regarding swingouts. Can swingouts only "swing", or is it legal to have them actually be completely removable and still be legal? That way I could just have it removed all the time for regular driving, and then just install it when I go to the track.

Swifty1638 · 01-07-2009

As far as I know, a properly installed swingout can be fully removed, and put in for track purposes, as it was on joshs's stealth. I just didn't opt for them.

Why not just purchase the main hoop bend, and then some straight piping? Also, don't forget you need the 6x6 plates to weld to the car floor. Primo Performance did my cage, but I also had gotten a pre-fabbed kit from S+W racecars.

-A. Swift

**Halon** · 01-07-2009

Where can I purchase just the main hoop bend? All the DSM specific ones I've found have 2 extra legs coming off them to meet 8-point criteria which I don't need/want.

How is the fitment of your pre-fabbed kit? I really would like mine to hug the interior of the car as much as possible to keep it's noticablitily and interference to a minnimum.

I understand the need for 6x6 plates, but I also understand they do NOT need to be welded.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 01-07-2009

IHRA used to require a 6-point cage at 11.49 versus the 5-point for NHRA, but I don't know if they changed it in the last few years and CFR switched from IHRA to NHRA. You could just not weld in those extra 2 legs, most the kits I see require welding of those on. I don't think they are for any rules, just for chassis stiffening, since the next step up in rules requires a full cage with halo. A full cage does use those 2 points, and you could convert to a full cage, but you can also run smaller diameter piping when doing a full cage versus a roll bar to save weight.

**Halon** · 01-07-2009

So would a 6 point cage be just the same as the 5 point, but with a side bar on the passenger side as well? I guess all I want is to be able to run in the 10's at the tracks, but no competitions, just for fun. Who's guide would be the best to follow? I was going off NHRA but apparently there are others. What should I be going off of to make sure I'm not going to get booted.

I could simply just not weld those other 2 legs, but I'd rather just not have them at all. Simply put, for me the less piping in the car the better.

I'd also like to retain as much of the interior as I can. Meaning I'd still like the back seats to be there. Anyone have any pics of anyone with a cage and still has an interior?

And again, anyone recommend any good local shops that could do this, and or bend their own cage for my car so it would fit better then these cookie cutter ones?

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 01-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

I could simply just not weld those other 2 legs, but I'd rather just not have them at all. Simply put, for me the less piping in the car the better.

Don't weld those 2 bars to the main hoop then.

Yea, a 6-point is just with a side bar for the passenger side.

Richard has done some nice cages in full interior cars. http://user1358701.sites.myregisteredsite.com/id5.html

One problem with the rules though, if enforced, is that you are supposed to have a full roll cage at 135mph or faster. 135mph for an automatic, slicked, transbraked, perfectly geared, tubed old V8 might be in the 9s. While for most manual tranny imports it's in the 10s-11s.

TkrPerformance · 01-07-2009

criags old cage in his talon was a pre bent one it fit great I just put it in for him. It was a 8pt cage. he got it at his work and we do have a mitsu account there to get a good discount on parts.

Super Bleeder!! · 01-07-2009

Cages ruin an otherwise nice street car.

C3L1CA · 01-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

Don't weld those 2 bars to the main hoop then.

Yea, a 6-point is just with a side bar for the passenger side.

Richard has done some nice cages in full interior cars. http://user1358701.sites.myregisteredsite.com/id5.html

One problem with the rules though, if enforced, is that you are supposed to have a full roll cage at 135mph or faster. 135mph for an automatic, slicked, transbraked, perfectly geared, tubed old V8 might be in the 9s. While for most manual tranny imports it's in the 10s-11s.

Yep don't forget about the trap speed, I don't know if you'd ever dip into the 9's but the trap speed is a big factor to think about.

I'd also check out mean street, I'd guess they'd be as cheap if not cheaper than a pre bent cage. They quoted me 800ish for an 8pt in moly and TNT quoted me 1ksih for an 8pt in moly.

Do you plan on running at only rock falls? At cedar from my experience they're pretty lenient on the rules and I'd feel pretty safe saying you wouldn't need a cage.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 01-07-2009

**Halon** · 01-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

Don't weld those 2 bars to the main hoop then.

From what I've seen on the websites that sell them, they looked like they were already welded on. If they aren't already welded on, then that's perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

135mph for an automatic, slicked, transbraked, perfectly geared, tubed old V8 might be in the 9s. While for most manual tranny imports it's in the 10s-11s.

For the most part, my car should be putting down numbers similar to a GT35R powered car. I plan to be running right around 30psi on E85. In your opinion, do you think I will be pushing the 135 mark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!

Cages ruin an otherwise nice street car.

Noted, thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by C3L1CA

Do you plan on running at only rock falls? At cedar from my experience they're pretty lenient on the rules and I'd feel pretty safe saying you wouldn't need a cage.

How lenient? My setup "should" be able to get me into the 10's, though I'm sure with my inexperience it won't happen the first year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkrperformance

criags old cage in his talon was a pre bent one it fit great I just put it in for him. It was a 8pt cage. he got it at his work and we do have a mitsu account there to get a good discount on parts.

Any pics? I'd love to hear a price quote on it.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 01-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

For the most part, my car should be putting down numbers similar to a GT35R powered car. I plan to be running right around 30psi on E85. In your opinion, do you think I will be pushing the 135 mark?

Very possible. Your setup is better than my wife's she goes 132mph at that boost level in winter street trim.

**Halon** · 01-07-2009

Well then I think I may just get an 8-point, but only install it as a 5-point. Then if/when I do break 135 and am getting harrassed for it, I'll have the rest of the pieces that I need to make it an 8.

Also, is your wifes full weight? That may come into account as my car is still very much full weight (p/s, a/c, full interior, stereo, power everything, sunroof). The only weight reduction done on the car is the front bumper is removed, the cruise control is removed, emissions removed, and CF Hood.

TkrPerformance · 01-07-2009

just pm craig and ask him for a price on it. he had it in 2 days at his store.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 01-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

Well then I think I may just get an 8-point, but only install it as a 5-point. Then if/when I do break 135 and am getting harrassed for it, I'll have the rest of the pieces that I need to make it an 8.

Also, is your wifes full weight? That may come into account as my car is still very much full weight (p/s, a/c, full interior, stereo, power everything, sunroof). The only weight reduction done on the car is the front bumper is removed, the cruise control is removed, emissions removed, and CF Hood.

You need a 10 point at 135mph.

Her's isn't full wieght, but it's probably not too much lighter than yours. It's doesn't have A/C or ABS, and cruise was just removed but it has P/S, almost full leather interior, stereo, power windows, power seat belts, sunroof, stock hood. She was on the heavy ass stock wheels and snow tires, which added 50-60lbs over her 16" Rota's with summer tires.

C3L1CA · 01-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

How lenient? My setup "should" be able to get me into the 10's, though I'm sure with my inexperience it won't happen the first year.

Last time I raced my bike there, another kid was running his R1 in the 10s all day in jeans and sneakers, you're supposed to have full leathers and a teather anything 120+ and 10.99 or quicker. Another guy I talked to said he ran a 9 second car down there with just a lap belt and the tech guys just laughed at him because it was still a stock suspension car scooting around all over the track.

I also think anything 135+ needs a 10pt cage, not just an 8pt.

**Halon** · 01-07-2009

I see. So then what is the purpose of an 8pt cage? Just added protection over a 5/6pt, but you're still limited to the same times/speeds as a 5/6pt?

**Halon** · 01-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by C3L1CA

Yep don't forget about the trap speed, I don't know if you'd ever dip into the 9's but the trap speed is a big factor to think about.

I'd also check out mean street, I'd guess they'd be as cheap if not cheaper than a pre bent cage. They quoted me 800ish for an 8pt in moly and TNT quoted me 1ksih for an 8pt in moly.

Do you plan on running at only rock falls? At cedar from my experience they're pretty lenient on the rules and I'd feel pretty safe saying you wouldn't need a cage.

Hey, were those prices you quoted only for installation, meaning you brought in a pre-made kit you already bought? Or was that for them to custom make it AND install it?

TnT is just minutes from my house, so I may have to give them a ring. That Mean Street isn't all that far either. Thanks for the recommendations

C3L1CA · 01-07-2009

I was looking at 8pts because it wouldn't take much more to make it into a 10pt if I ever went that fast. Plus it seems like it would add some rigidity to the chassis. I don't have a back seat anyways so it wouldn't interfere with that.

Mean street quoted me "An 8 point chromeoly roll bar will cost you $800.00 installed (parts & labor)." TNT was the same way that they custom build the cage to your car so it includes the installation and and the actual cage in the price. I'd personally take it to mean street as he's done some cages in some fast cars and seems to have really good prices.

**Halon** · 01-07-2009

I think I'll look into both of them. TnT is damn near next door to me and I've gone there a lot for parts. Never even thought about them doing cages. Looking at their site, they show that they've done some work for Brent Rau. If their work is good enough for him, I think it may just be good enough for me.