Engine Building-What Products? - Page 2

blageo23 · 10-30-2006

That main girdle thing is interesting.
Right now I have a 20G turbo. Its just a FWD so I dont want to go too big. BUT I want the engine to handle "anything" I throw at it.

Pushit2.0 · 10-30-2006

The main girdle piece looks nice, but I think they might want to torque the main studs to spec then see if they still have this problem.
" Torquing the main bolts to as much as 55ft-lbs didn’t help this at all."
The spec for ARP mains (10mm 190,000psi stud) is 60 lb/ft which is only 75% or the yield strength, they could try going a little more than 60 lb/ft to see if that helps. Also if they installed arps they should have line honed the block. If I have to make a piece like that I would integrate a windige tray into it.

~John

santa · 10-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by niterydr

The performance gains on a 3 vs 5 angle valve job are noticeable but usually not worth the additional port work required to make it worth while.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that the performance gain of a 5-angle valve job is not worth the extra time (sparing no expense at the machine shop)? The gains seen between a 3-angle and 5-angle valve job are typically 6-7cfm per port (from personal experience on a flow bench), and all you have to do is simply request this from your machine shop. How hard is that? If you are sparing no expense it is definately worth looking into.

**v8klla** · 10-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pushit2.0

The main girdle piece looks nice, but I think they might want to torque the main studs to spec then see if they still have this problem.
" Torquing the main bolts to as much as 55ft-lbs didn’t help this at all."
The spec for ARP mains (10mm 190,000psi stud) is 60 lb/ft which is only 75% or the yield strength, they could try going a little more than 60 lb/ft to see if that helps. Also if they installed arps they should have line honed the block. If I have to make a piece like that I would integrate a windige tray into it.

~John

They were referring to stock main bolts at this point... Looks like a piece worth looking into though!

Chris

**Goat Blower** · 10-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pushit2.0

The main girdle piece looks nice, but I think they might want to torque the main studs to spec then see if they still have this problem.
" Torquing the main bolts to as much as 55ft-lbs didn’t help this at all."
The spec for ARP mains (10mm 190,000psi stud) is 60 lb/ft which is only 75% or the yield strength, they could try going a little more than 60 lb/ft to see if that helps. Also if they installed arps they should have line honed the block. If I have to make a piece like that I would integrate a windige tray into it.

~John

You'd have to read more about it to know what it was designed for. It's not a band-aid for improper torque specs. It's one of those things that if you need it, you'd know.

Pushit2.0 · 10-31-2006

The pics on the web page and the motor they talk about was using arp mains, so I thought that was the torque spec they used for the arps. Making a plate like that would not be hard, but $150 is a good price.

~John

Super Bleeder!! · 10-31-2006

just use stock cam gears. you can re-mark them yourself and spend the 40 bucks somewhere else!

**JET** · 10-31-2006

Yeah, there is no need to buy 2.4 cam gears.

niterydr · 10-31-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by santa

So let me get this straight. You're saying that the performance gain of a 5-angle valve job is not worth the extra time (sparing no expense at the machine shop)? The gains seen between a 3-angle and 5-angle valve job are typically 6-7cfm per port (from personal experience on a flow bench), and all you have to do is simply request this from your machine shop. How hard is that? If you are sparing no expense it is definately worth looking into.

You are seeing 6-7cfm per port on a dsm head by changing out to a 3-angle to a 5-angle valve job? Whom-ever is doing the 3 angle valve job sucks then. Just going by personal experience

. I am assuming you did this in school, or did MAP buy a flow-bench? Maybe you can tell me at what pressures those gains were seen at? Cam height? Valve seat angles? Where were they seen? Peak? Low-lift? Midrange? Overall gains? What size valves were these on? What flow bench? What bore size? Please enlighten me in your experiences.

I have done plenty of research into valve seat angles compared to cfm gains in different ranges, you do realize that the cams we are working with are usually less than .450" lift? I also have done PLENTY of research into wear characteristics and longevity of a 3-angle valve job vs. a 5-angle on a STREET CAR.

Different part selection, changing valve heights, adjusting port configuration are all more things "worth it" on a spare no expense situation.

Finally, if you read the customers post, instead of a my posts, you would realize that he has already paid for a 3 angle valve job on his current head and was inquiring if it should be sufficient. I was simply stating the added costs of going to a 5-angle valve job won't notice him huge gains. Hince the recommendation of going with a 3-angle valve job.

So I will state again. The costs involved compared to the potential performance gains will lead me to state that Mike will be better off keeping his current head and putting the money elsewhere.

**1ViciousGSX** · 10-31-2006

The cam gears are off by 1/2 a tooth. How do plan to re-mark them? Either way you are 1/2 tooth advanced or 1/2 tooth retarded. Buy 2.4L gears or adjustable 2.0L gears and degree them in like I did.

From reading this thread, you might want to let somebody build it for you.

**Goat Blower** · 10-31-2006

You could remark your 2.0 gears, they'd be exactly half a tooth clockwise from the original marks. Like Vicious, I bought the 2.4 gears, timing is just not something I'd do half-assed.

Super Bleeder!! · 10-31-2006

Just mark them like this. Yes i know they arent the stock gears but who cares? The marks line up the same way.

Outlaw1 · 10-31-2006

Is there a huge cylinder head flow difference between 3 angle vs. 5 angle valve seats....? Not so much.

I've spent countless hours on SuperFlows, from the old tube style pressure readers, to the new "touch one button" setups playing with all kinds of cylinder head setups. I've only seen some minor gains here and there, typically in the low lift numbers with different seat angles, including radius'd exaust valve heads flowing them at 25 and 28 inches of water. I know some guys that would pay big bucks if you could get them an additional 7cfm's out of their heads.

I reread that and it sounded like I don't condone 5 angle seats. If you have the cutters, by all means multi-angle cut the seats, backcut your intake valves and radius your exaust valve, but don't expect huge gains. Put your trust into someone who will make sure you have a good set of guides and knows how your seat width will work with your particular combination. And lastly, lap the damn things in. They only have to touch them for a second to see where the valve hits the seat and it saves the hassle of getting an uneven seat or valve face because the cutter chattered the seat. Even with a Sunnen automated cutter you can still get crappy seats. The machine work is only as good as the guy sending it out the door.

**1ViciousGSX** · 10-31-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!

Just mark them like this. Yes i know they arent the stock gears but who cares? The marks line up the same way.

Damn, homie's got a gear drive set-up.

If I remember correctly the difference is about 4.5 deg of cam timing in either direction. Ask anybody who's done building and/or tuning and they will tell you 4.5 deg is alot. Do it right. You'll spend many times the cost of the gears trying to get back that power difference.

Super Bleeder!! · 11-01-2006

shane, mo and cher all made some pretty respectable power with remarked STOCK CAM GEARS friend

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 11-01-2006

This thread is great.

TalonFiero · 11-01-2006

I remarked my timing gears, I bought a 2.4 timing gear from mitsu to overlay on the stock 2.0 gears like forever ago. I have no idea where my 2.4 gear ended up, I know its floated around the community for remarking stockers. No problems here, pretty simple modification.

Jim

CDeutsch · 11-01-2006

I have OEM 2.4 gears you can buy/rent. PM me if interested.

$10 per gear (I paid $17.14 and $18.20 excluding tax and shipping)

I ended up marking a set of AEM adjustables.

Headwerks did my machine work to the bottom end and so far it's taken 10,000 plus miles of my amateur assembly and tuning abuse. lol

They too recommend OEM main bearings unless I wanted to align hone the mains. I'm using all OEM bearings, Eagle rods, and Ross pistons.

**1ViciousGSX** · 11-01-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!

shane, mo and cher all made some pretty respectable power with remarked STOCK CAM GEARS friend

I seriously doubt that. Do you understand where the problem is in running the 2.0L gears on a 2.4L block?

TalonFiero · 11-02-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

I seriously doubt that. Do you understand where the problem is in running the 2.0L gears on a 2.4L block?

Mike what are you saying? Shane, Cher, Mo, and myself all overlaid a stock 2.4 cam gear on top of a stock 2.0 cam gear and remarked the timing marks. Pretty simple and widely done, back when I did the 2.4 swap I don't think there were 2.4 cam gears available other than stock.

Jim