Confederate flag, yes or no?

[1ViciousGSX]

There is no such thing as "reverse" racism,..... you're either racist or you're not.

Here's some additional links and info about the Confederate Flag, the Civil War and slavery,...

http://www.rulen.com/myths/
http://www.rulen.com/educate/

[Halon]

To be honest, I really don't have an opinion on the Confederate Flag issue. Doesn't really mean anything to me so don't really feel the need to form an opinion one way or another on it.

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

There is no such thing as "reverse" racism,..... you're either racist or you're not.

Here's some additional links and info about the Confederate Flag, the Civil War and slavery,...

http://www.rulen.com/myths/
http://www.rulen.com/educate/

Thanks english grammar nazi! lol - Let's call it racism then.

I don't even know what to say about your sources there. When you post baseless information like that, I almost think you're joking. Do you genuinely believe those links provide any useful information?

[AwdGSX13]

"reverse racism" that term cracks me up.

[Halon]

I never used the term reverse racism, I said an "opposite form of racism", and all I meant by that was fighting racism, with racism just in the exact opposite way.

E.G. Say a group was oppressed based on their race. Then "fix it" by creating special exceptions for that group based on race. In the name of equality.

That's what I meant by countering racism with an opposite form of racism.

[jeremy1375]

^
I used the term. Now I get punished for it. lol

[Halon]

Damn ricer.

[SlowWhite]

I fully agree with viscious. And just like I posted. I dont hold hatred to the english for enslaving the irish because its not taught in history openly which allowed it to just go away... much faster then if you constantly bring it up.

Hell my daughter lasted had to learn the language of the slaves. And spent the entire "black history" month focused on slavery.

So tell me how are we letting this subject go? How are we not teaching our children hatred and not to be racist (she's 9) and whites are definetely the minority in my area.
Out of 116 people here at work im 1 of 15 in the entire plant.

[jeremy1375]

^ Slavery is part of history and it needs to be taught in school. It's important to learn history so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

[AwdGSX13]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

^ Slavery is part of history and it needs to be taught in school. It's important to learn history so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

So the confederate battle flag is not part of history? It doesn't mean anything to me, but i'm sure some that live in the south still care what it stands for maybe? Today people just complain about something until others get annoyed enough to change it.

[jeremy1375]

Yes, it's a part of history. Nobody's taking it out of history, just the South Carolina state capitol.

The Confederate flag is part of history. It's not part of the current government, which is why it doesn't belong at the capitol.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

Thanks english grammar nazi! lol - Let's call it racism then.

LoL

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

I don't even know what to say about your sources there. When you post baseless information like that, I almost think you're joking. Do you genuinely believe those links provide any useful information?

Part joke, part thought provoking. There's so much misinformation on both sides of the discussion that it's hard to know what is accurate vs. the tactics of an agenda to rewrite history. But it does make people open their minds to think and research for themselves.

On this page are many good points, take them for what you believe them to be worth.
http://www.rulen.com/history/

Let it be known that the Confederate flag is an honored symbol of a portion of our national history. It in no way reflects slavery, bigotry or hatred.

Many revisionists and spin doctors will spread the misconception of the war of 1861-1865 as being that it was fought over slavery. NOT TRUE...
In actuality, what these revisionists of true history are doing started back in the early 1960's and is referred to amongst the people that know true history, as the "Second Reconstruction". Trying to rewrite and destroy all semblance, vestiges and heritage of a Southern Nation. It is a distorted and perverse legacy of what was once the civil rights movement.
But, it has became rabid and venomous, and has an agenda to persuade you to forget about real history at any price. Including the mockery and altering of history. (Doesn't sound like what's going on today?)
Anyway, to get back to the historic factor involved, the South fought for Southern Independence and to repel Northern oppression and aggressions. The North fought for monetary gain and financial superiority. Plain and simple. Be very clear about that!!!!
I have been, and still am, a student of history through many years of education, research and archeology. I have direct family lineage to some of the very first settlers in the "new world", as well as being descended from veterans of the Revolutionary War and War of 1812.
Now then, the kicker...I also have direct blood ancestors that fought for the Union army as well as having Confederate ancestors that fought for the South during the years of 1861-1865. I have no bias what-so-ever as far as the so called "civil war".
And I will assure you that I have never owned a slave in my life, nor has any of my relatives. I can hear the cries of " he's just an unreconstructed Rebel" or "he's just a Neo-Confederate" flying freely.
Call me what you will, but I am simply an honest & accurate historian as well as an American Patriot. Someone not afraid of the truth nor afraid to stand up for actual history and heritage.
My only attempt in writing this essay is to tell the whole story, and to let the interested parties see what has been kept from them. Something the revisionists and "spin doctors" will never tell you!!!!
* * * THE FIRST CASUALTY IN WAR IS TRUTH * * *

Read sections 4, 5 and 6 of that page for some different insight. In fact read the whole page.

Can I vouch for the author, no. Can you discredit the author because I can't vouch for him, no you can't. Do your own research.

[SlowWhite]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

^ Slavery is part of history and it needs to be taught in school. It's important to learn history so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

So you think that if we remove the topic of slavery from schools. Slavery will return?

Im all for history, how ever if we are going to dedicate a month for black history(which I think is completely obsered) why not focus on all the positive contributions blacks have made , why focus (at least here, they focus on the negatives? Its like they want people to hate each other)

I have no problems putting the history of all people into schools, but just put it in, with the time lines you are teaching about when it pertains, there is no need to dedicate a month every year of a childs life to specifically learn about one topic. It just seems so redundant. It was slavery last year and it was slavery this year.

[goodhart]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

^ Slavery is part of history and it needs to be taught in school. It's important to learn history so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

Exactly. Teach what happened, how terrible it was. But there is no need to demonize white people, which is exactly what is taught. That doesn't do good for anyone, just fans the flames. I had a professor once tell my class that minorities are INCAPABLE of being racist. What a load of shit.

[SlowWhite]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

Yes, it's a part of history. Nobody's taking it out of history, just the South Carolina state capitol.

The Confederate flag is part of history. It's not part of the current government, which is why it doesn't belong at the capitol.

And its not just south carolina. Several other states took it down as well but south carolina was just the point of focus due to the idiot in Charleston that happened to have a confederate in his house when police searched it. And then it blew up from there as the media made it a focal point, which turned it people jumping on the band wagon.
Thing is this is the south confederate flags are everywhere

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

LoL

Part joke, part thought provoking. There's so much misinformation on both sides of the discussion that it's hard to know what is accurate vs. the tactics of an agenda to rewrite history. But it does make people open their minds to think and research for themselves.

...

I read through that page and from my research, it appears to me that he is the one revising history. Read through South Carolina's declaration of secession. There is no spin there as it's straight from the horses mouth.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

It's boring as hell, but it contains the reasons for secession. About half way through they'll start giving specific reasons for withdrawing from the Union.

This is just one paragraph, but it shows that the subject of slavery is in there.

"A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction."

[SlowWhite]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

Whites put blacks at a disadvantage - Through centuries of discrimination. Generational wealth doesn't exist for blacks like it does for whites. A person is much more likely to complete a college degree if their parents did. If parents aren't very well educated, their kids are likely to follow in their paths.

How do you remove the influence from the parents? Like I mentioned above. We are products of our history.

I believe doing things like removing the Confederate flag send at least some small message to blacks who feel like whites are keeping them down - that things that concern them matter.

There is no reason anyone cant change there lives. It is the person themselves that have to do something about it. It has nothing to do about generations.
And I will use my own family as an example.
My father grew up in Kansas in a 1 room house. Made of wood scraps collected from sruff laying around.
He decided he never wanted to live this way ever again. And put all his effort into school in a place where school was 2ndary to farming. He graduated from MIT. And went to work for NASA, was a programmer for IBM for a while, when he retired he had saved just over 3 million dollars. And it only took 1 generation to change. Problem is most people are to selfish as parents to sacrifice there lives for the betterment of there family. Used to be everyone did this. But anymore

There is no reason anyone cant do anything , they just have to apply themselves.

[1ViciousGSX]

Originally Posted by SlowWhite

And its not just south carolina. Several other states took it down as well but south carolina was just the point of focus due to the idiot in Charleston that happened to have a confederate in his house when police searched it. And then it blew up from there as the media made it a focal point, which turned it people jumping on the band wagon.
Thing is this is the south confederate flags are everywhere

Crazy person shoots up a church and the flag gets blamed,...... and it only got blamed by an agenda, nothing more,....

[jeremy1375]

Originally Posted by goodhart

Exactly. Teach what happened, how terrible it was. But there is no need to demonize white people, which is exactly what is taught. That doesn't do good for anyone, just fans the flames. I had a professor once tell my class that minorities are INCAPABLE of being racist. What a load of shit.

I haven't had the experience of any teacher demonizing whites for slavery.

I wonder if your professor was trying to make a point, but used the wrong words. Obviously any person of any color can be racist. But as a whole it isn't possible, at least in a true democracy, for the majority race to be oppressed by a minority race. A minority race can be oppressed by the majority race, however.

[SlowWhite]

Originally Posted by jeremy1375

I haven't had the experience of any teacher demonizing whites for slavery.

I wonder if your professor was trying to make a point, but used the wrong words. Obviously any person of any color can be racist. But as a whole it isn't possible, at least in a true democracy, for the majority race to be oppressed by a minority race. A minority race can be oppressed by the majority race, however.

Issue is its not a specific minority race, its all the minorities combined that out number the majority and they are all working together for the first time.

Making the actual majority, a minority